Raphaël: Hey folks.

And welcome to this latest
episode of the small tech podcast.

I'm Raph co-founder of EC, the digital
product studio building technologies

for a more sustainable future and
today we have another amazing guest.

He is the co-founder and CEO of the
Farmer's Truck, which empowers community

leaders to increase fresh food access
in their communities by providing

mobile produce market solutions,
which create a market style experience

that fosters pride and dignity.

I first met him a few weeks ago at
Startup Fest in Montreal where we

really connected over the intersection
of entrepreneurship tech and impact.

And it was such a great conversation so
I needed to talk to him some more dig

into what exactly the farmer's truck is,
the story, how he's been building it.

And yeah, I think it was a
really interesting conversation.

And I hope you enjoy it.

Hey Fred, how's it going?

Fred: Good, good, good, how about you?

Raphaël: I am doing all right.

So thanks for hopping on the podcast.

I have a couple questions that
I'd like to kick us off with.

Fred: Sounds great.

Raphaël: So you are now
doing the farmer's truck.

Maybe you can tell us a little
bit about that to start.

What is the farmer's truck?

Fred: Farmer's Truck is a bit of
a an entrepreneur, uh, middle aged

crisis is almost what I can call

Raphaël: I love it.

Fred: um, you know, my background's in
tech, I worked as a product designer

for, you know, software companies,
and I had my own agency for quite some

time, did a lot of designs, and, uh,
but, you tech kind of sucks your soul

a little bit, and kills you inside,

Raphaël: That's what we want to
hear on the small tech podcast.

Fred: like, slowly crunches you down,

and like, you pick it up
with a spoon afterwards.

No, I grew up in a farm, I, uh,
completely opposite of what I was

doing, I guess, doing, working in tech
and farm, it seems like two opposite

worlds sometimes, but, yeah, I ended
up working in tech and then I had this

opportunity to partner with a farmer from
Cap Pedé, uh, from the Acadian coast,

more, French coast of New Brunswick.

And he had a farm, he had a,
quite an interesting story.

He was telling me that, you know, dropped
everything he was doing to start a farm.

I felt like this was inspiring and I
wanted to hang out with this guy and

we started the farmer's truck together.

That was back in 2015.

So the whole point was to help him get
access to, people and give his fruits,

not give, but sell his fruits and
vegetables and whatever other products.

And that, that really kind
of started the whole journey.

And we saw the good it
did in the community.

We felt like, you know, we
have to do more with this.

And we launched a second
program the second year.

And fast forward to today, we've launched
over 50 programs from New York to Hawaii.

So that's farmer's truck in a nutshell.

Yeah.

Raphaël: That's amazing.

Okay, it's funny because I was going
to ask something else about like

this journey and how you got here
but that's sort of the inception is,

uh, you two get together, you want
to help get his produce to market.

But if we step back a little bit
further, what led you to the point

where this seemed feasible, that you
could like, hop on and do this thing?

Like what was your
trajectory to that point?

Fred: I think it boils back to what
motivates you and you and I both connected

on like purpose work and finding our
purpose and, you know, doing good in

the world, I guess, is, is what feels,
what is the best motivation for me?

So I, um, what was the question again?

Raphaël: Yeah.

I just kind of want to know, like, when,
when you got to that point where you, you

met up with, uh, with him and you're like,
all right, let's, let's build this thing.

Like what in your career, in your
life led you to the point that you

were like, yeah, I can, I can do this.

Like, this is something that I
can take on and I can get this,

this guy's produce to market.

I can build a platform.

I can build a program to do this.

Fred: I just think that
growing up on the farm.

You kind of deal with whatever comes your
way, and you're in the middle of nowhere

in the country, and something breaks down,
you have to learn to weld, you have to

learn to fix an engine, and so, I'm not
that handy, I'm not like my father, my

father's the archetype of a farmer can fix
anything can do anything build a house.

I'll build a house right there, you
know, like you're okay That's crazy so

I think that's really My motivation was
to do good and I was at a point in my

career my design career where I was not
getting Excited anymore about projects.

You know, the last few projects we
were working on was like funeral

products for insurance company I was
like am I really doing this right now?

Raphaël: Yeah.

Fred: Not that I have anything against it.

There's a place and time for insurance.

It's just, I didn't see myself doing that
type of design, you know, in my career.

And I did a lot of exciting stuff.

We, we were agency record for Bell.

We did campaigns across Canada.

We did all kinds of different things,
but this was, um, a point where I

felt I needed some change and this
came out of nowhere and I just

fell in love with it once I started
working on the truck, like the concept

was like, Oh, that's kind of cool.

It's a farm stand on the
side of the road is not old.

It's not a new idea.

It's probably been around
since the Egyptians, or, you

know, probably older than that.

But to do it, to do good,
to help your community.

That was the epiphany for me.

I was like, this is really cool.

And we were putting on like, you know
12 14 hour days, me and Matzir in

the summer, trying to get this going.

And I was coming back home and I
just had this smile on my face.

I felt like energized.

I was like, I mean, this is what I want.

Like, I just spent 12 hours selling
fruits and vegetables in the middle of

a 35 degree weather and I enjoyed it.

And I was like, That's, that's
seems to be where I need to go.

So I just follow my heart.

Raphaël: Nice.

And how did you learn
to build these trucks?

Fred: Well, my dad kind of gave me some
ideas about the refrigeration system

because my dad's really old school and
so when he grew up there used to be the

iceman coming once a week, give you a
block of ice, you'd put it in the basement

and store your meat around it and like
put some wood chips and you could just

keep the stuff cold, you know, for a week.

Raphaël: Yeah.

Fred: And so I worked with
the University of Dalhousie.

I got a grant to design a passive
cooling system because back then,

2015, to put refrigeration on a mobile
version of our store was difficult.

You needed generators and all kinds
of energies and there's no efficiency.

So we came up with this cool ice pack
kind of setup and it just blows air

around and it's super eco friendly.

You don't need to run a generator.

It's cheap, affordable, easy to fix.

And so that was the first design we did.

Fast forward to today, we have designed
probably five different types of trucks

over time, we're always refining it,
understanding what customer needs,

and it's just human centered design.

It's the same thing I was doing before.

It's just now I'm applying it to
hardware and I was doing it for software.

So.

Yeah,

Raphaël: Was there anything that
you found particularly surprising

when you first started building
and designing these things?

Fred: The world of custom trucks
is a very particular world.

Coming from the tech world
that everything's possible.

You can build whatever you want.

You can stretch the boundaries, you
know, and then you're, you're coming

to work with people like banging metal.

And you're like, what do you want a box?

I can do a box.

That's it.

So trying to get them to
think iteratively, to think

about this it was difficult.

So we went through, you know, quite
a few challenges, but at the end of

the day, we needed a solid partner.

I think we found that partner.

And now I think it's, it's the
trust that you can do this, you

Raphaël: yeah.

Fred: Hardware is hard.

Now we're trying to fix problems
that are like a truck in Hawaii.

I'm like, okay, this is happening.

How do we fix that?

Like, there's all kinds of different
challenges that comes with versus

software you fix from afar and you,
you can, you know, manage that.

That's,

Raphaël: just click a
button and deploy a change?

Fred: Like, we're thinking about doing,
like, the next iteration, about doing,

like, um Like remote assistance inside the
truck, which is kind of interesting, like

this, to get the data flowing back to us.

And so we can see, and then we can use
that data and do other things with, but

you know, there's, there's some, anyways.

Working on something there, the,
make it easy for us to troubleshoot,

uh, from afar, but, uh, it's
still, still a work in progress.

Raphaël: With that in mind, um, what,
like, so with your background in, in

software and design, like how much of that
fits into your current processes, either

in terms of like actual, like, oh, we use
software to do a few different things,

or even just like the thinking, like.

Like you were describing,
trying to apply, that iterative

mindset to building on hardware.

Are there other, parts of your
business where you use those

kinds of skills or tools, or?

Yeah.

Fred: I think that designer led
startups are often better off just

because good designers are selfless
in the sense that they really fall in

love with the problem and they're not
trying to They're a machine to come

up with creative and ways to solve it.

And so fall in love with the problem.

My mind is goes, you know, ADHD
racing a million miles an hour.

I have all these ideas.

I was like, okay, so it's, it's applying
a human centered design, design thinking,

a system design thinking as well.

When we go into a community with a
mobile market, there's all kinds of

other services that can wrap around food.

Food brings people together.

But then you can attach, like, you
know, a nurse that comes and talks

about diabetes or does eye exams.

You can talk about underbanked,
individuals and try to

get them a bank account.

Like, there's so many, because
we go directly in an underserved

community where, where it's
usually low income, low access.

Raphaël: Mm hmm.

There's

Fred: a slew of challengers for
them that we, that are connected,

and like one program that
comes to mind is in Louisiana.

That's exactly what they do.

They'll bring a different, partner
every other week, I guess, or whenever,

and complement their food service.

So, yeah.

Raphaël: That's cool do you
provide those kinds of services?

Or do you partner with people
to add on those services?

Fred: So our go to market strategy
was, what can we do to generate income

to continue supporting the community
that are doing these mobile markets?

And so that's the social
enterprise lens, and

Raphaël: Mm hmm.

Fred: you know, there's, when there's no
money in the solution, it's difficult.

So, where would, the money go if there
was a solution and we felt the truck was

the biggest piece of the puzzle and having
a bad truck it's like you're a janitor

with a bad broom like it just doesn't
work like you can be a great janitor but

you don't have the right tools so we felt
that was the best way to start and yeah

I don't know that answers your question.

Raphaël: Yeah it fits into another
question that I have, which is

the, the impact side of things.

Like everything you've said
so far is like, everything is

infused with impact, right?

Like that is what's motivating you to
keep going on this and I think there is,

as you described, like for when impact is
the primary motivator, sometimes it's easy

to forget the business side, like that
there needs to be money coming through.

Uh,

Fred: hardest, it's the hardest thing,
like, uh, nobody tells you how to run

a social enterprise, it's just this,
gray zone of a business model, because

everybody I talk to, they're, you
know, are you for profit, non profit?

I'm like, well, like, in the middle?

Raphaël: yeah,

Fred: We're somewhere there.

It's, it's difficult.

So I think that walking the line
of financial sustainability and

social impact and, and you have
to put in some non negotiables

Raphaël: yeah,

Fred: you have to put in like,
for example, our mission is

to increase fresh food access.

So we'll do whatever we can in that
space to continue that mission.

But everything else we are as competitive
or try to be as competitive as possible.

As demanding as, as we could be for
the, you know, the, the truck we sell,

like we need that to be competitive.

We know that at one point mobile market
will be more and more used around.

And at one point there's
going to be more competition.

So how do we disrupt ourselves
and continue that journey as, you

know, and that's product designer
mentality, I think the tough part

is really managing the financial
sustainability because there's so much

to do and we're in an emerging market.

It's crazy, but it is an emerging
market to do health with food.

Raphaël: yeah,

Fred: They've just came out with
a study in Oklahoma, I believe

that, you know, food as medicine
is the movement that we're in

Raphaël: okay, yeah,

Fred: and they've been doing what
they call medically tailored meals for

individuals who have, you know, Diabetes,
hypertension, all that stuff, like things

that are chronic disease that comes
from dieting, bad diets, and they're

seeing the impact that the individuals
are, you know, these meals are having

on individuals so much that it actually
saves the healthcare system money, and

they're serving people a plate of food,
like they're actually get somebody

cooking, preparing all this, serving it
to them, and at the end, when you count

all the costs, they actually save money.

Raphaël: that's awesome.

Fred: So, our concept is even
more efficient, because we're

bringing a whole food to them.

Here's your full food for
the week, you know, so.

That's the exciting part about this
emerging market is really, you know,

it's such a simple concept, fruits
and vegetable like it's just people

like water like if I had a mobile
market parked in front of my house,

I'd go there every week, right?

It's just, and it's affordable.

It's, you know, so that's the experience.

Raphaël: Yeah, that's awesome.

I'm curious with all of that
how have you sort of handled or

thought about, or I don't know,
like, what's, what's scaling like?

I know you operate in Canada and the U.

S., do you operate elsewhere?

And how does that work?

Fred: So we're fully remote, we work
with a manufacturer to do our trucks,

trying to design the business so that
it would function as a hardware company,

fully remote, it's difficult to figure
it out, but we have a model right now

that works we do have to be near a
manufacturer, so I do travel there,

our engineer travels there as well.

The most complicated part is trying
to service the trucks when they're

so far away and trying to find
someone who's willing to do that.

So now we're opening up a new position
and it's going to be this customer

service technician that will go and fly
around everywhere and go fix trucks.

Raphaël: Okay.

Fred: crazy.

Pretty crazy cool job, I must say,
but that's the most challenging

part is trying to fix these trucks
when they're, they're so far.

That really is.

Raphaël: Yeah, so anyone who's
listening, who's looking for a job and

who has some experience, talk to Fred.

Um, yeah cool.

I'm kind of curious, is there any
possibility to sort of, like, tie

some sort of, like, capacity building
into the communities to deal with

that kind of work, or is it, like,
very specialized to your trucks or

Fred: It's quite specialized because
our trucks are, you know, nobody else

does a well, we're the first to market
with a mobile market truck, key in hand,

we're also very conscious about what
we design, that it doesn't create more

emission or whatever, so our entire, the
new truck runs all on lithium batteries.

Raphaël: Oh, cool.

Fred: Because we couldn't find a chassis
that would fit the design we have.

So we said, well, let's create something
that's the next best thing, which is when

the truck is parked, it runs on battery.

You're not idling the vehicle
or anything like that.

So it's 70% electric,
if that makes sense.

Raphaël: that's cool.

So with that to what extent, like, so
do you have like a base sort of truck

that you work with and, or like, I
have no idea how this world works.

Do you, do you have like a, a
chassis that you buy, but you buy

all of the other pieces separately?

Do you, like, how much of this
comes off the shelf or not?

Fred: So basically you buy the chassis.

There's a lot of companies
who sell chassis.

Ford, GM, Dodge, they all sell.

So you need to find the right
chassis that works for you.

We work with Ford because
they have the most flexibility

and a very mature product.

So the Ford Transit is great.

There's a Ford E Transit that came out,
but it's not necessarily what we need,

so we're waiting on them to update.

I'm not going to update the chassis,
but essentially, you buy the truck.

So Ford makes these trucks and
they're an incomplete vehicle.

And so you have to build the back
of the boxes, which is what we do.

It simplifies things quite a bit.

Obviously you don't have to
deal with building an engine or,

you know, doing all that stuff.

Um, but the industry, the
logistic industry is really,

it's quite used to that.

Like if you look at FedEx or Purolator
with their step bands, you know, when

they walk in and out of the delivery vans,
it's, it's what they call a strip chassis.

Raphaël: Okay.

Fred: And so they build the entire thing
around it out of aluminum in rivets.

And like, it's a bunker.

It's a little a warehouse on wheels
is the best way to describe it but

really you buy the entire vehicle part
out of Ford or another supplier and

you kind of build a shell around it.

So that's the custom
truck world in a nutshell.

Raphaël: Okay, cool.

Um, so that sounds kind of expensive,
um, and I'm curious, like you mentioned

the grant that you got at first, but like
what kind of financing did you need, or

like did you, did you get other grants,
did you get any investment, like how

did that work for you, and how does that
fit into like your whole impact focus?

Fred: So, the only way I would, I
could consider doing this startup was

if I bootstrap, cause I didn't have
money for this type of stuff, like

companies spend millions of dollars
doing R&D's building vehicles or

whatever, I had a 25,000 dollar youth
Entrepreneurship Loan, and that's all I

had and we had to buy a vehicle, modify
it, and launch the business with 25k.

Raphaël: Yep.

Fred: Which is insane, so we got a
used truck out of Toronto, or Ontario.

We had it driven down to New Brunswick.

We built the interior out of wood
because that was the only thing

readily available next to the farm.

The guy had a wood mill and was selling
us a dollar a plank and then, but

it was, it wasn't dry, so then the

Raphaël: Oh, no.

Fred: bending in the truck.

Anyway, so, lesson learned, obviously it's
a bunch of lesson learned, but we launched

the first truck with 25,000 dollars and
then the next one, I financed it myself,

so I got, I bought a truck, basically, and
the whole entire thing with the company

and then, yeah, and at that point, we were
pretty confident with the design we had,

And we needed to design one for the, you
know, to sell to others at that point.

So our third iteration was what
we call the A model, or the apple

and we had banana, and now we have

Raphaël: cantaloupe

I love it.

What's, What's, going to be next?

Fred: Um, is there Duran, or is
Duran, or, it's D, but, you know,

Raphaël: Yeah.

Fred: thinking about it.

Yeah.

Raphaël: Yeah.

Fred: Uh,

Raphaël: You don't, you don't plan out.

You don't have, fruits and veggies
for every letter of the alphabet yet.

Fred: not yet.

No, I mean, and I, and I don't know that's
necessarily sustainable because at the 20,

I mean, I'm, uh, I'm thinking about doing
all these iterations anyways, so like

we're working on like the trailer version,
we're working on like a farm stand,

like a non mobile version of what we do,
because there's farmers who could use it.

So we're thinking about that as well.

Raphaël: That's

Fred: yeah.

Raphaël: Yeah.

Fred: So.

Raphaël: You talked about bringing the
truck from Ontario to New Brunswick

and you had like this context in
which you, you started all of this.

Does New Brunswick itself,
like being from New Brunswick?

What, what about New Brunswick,
if anything, like influenced?

This idea and, and helped you
get it off the ground or yeah.

And the ecosystem there,
uh, entrepreneurship.

Fred: So, New Brunswick
is the Arkansas of Canada,

Raphaël: Okay.

Mm

Fred: there's very little resources for
entrepreneurs, there is some, but it's,

uh, it's, it's very under resourced
and underfunded, so one in four New

Brunswickers is food insecure, so it's one
of the highest rate in Canada, following

Newfoundland, I believe, and then, The
Northern Territories is 1 in 2, so about

50 percent of families are food insecure.

And food insecure means that
you don't know where your next

meal is going to come from.

And that happens at least once a week, I
believe, or there's a certain threshold,

but basically, yeah a repeating of
that is considered food insecure.

In the U.

S., 10 percent is considered high.

Raphaël: Okay.

Fred: So we're 25% in New

Raphaël: Brunswick

That's wild.

I had no idea.

Fred: so our farming in New Brunswick is
also like our food security as a grower as

a farming community it's about 7% what's
on our plate comes from New Brunswick.

So everything is trucked in.

Out of all the places I could have
launched this, New Brunswick was probably

one of the most difficult ones, and I,
and just because I was, me and Mathieu

were there, and we, you know, we were
thinking about the farm, but, you know,

if I've launched this in Ontario, or in
the BC, or in Quebec, or whatever, we,

we would have accelerated our growth,
I think, but that's New Brunswick, and

I think New Brunswick has been, I mean,
the city of Moncton was welcoming, open

arms, like, hey, I want you to park right
in front of City Hall, like I want you

to, yeah, like, we love what we're doing.

Riverview was the same thing.

Dieppe was like, nope, I don't
want to, I don't want you

anywhere near, I was like, okay,

Raphaël: That's so strange.

Out of curiosity, why do communities turn
down the truck when that does happen?

Fred: I'm not sure.

I think that, you know, when you're,
it's like saying, hey, the food bank

wants to come and do some work in
your, in your city, and you're like,

no, we don't need food banks here.

And you're like, I'm pretty sure you

Raphaël: you do.

Yeah.

Fred: Yeah.

So I don't know if it's not acknowledging
the problem and means that you

don't have to do anything about it.

I don't know if that's the politics
behind it, but it's, uh, yeah.

I mean, if you are against the
idea of having fresh healthy

food to people, there's other
questions I have for you, so,

Raphaël: Yeah.

Yeah, me too.

Fred: let's talk about this a little
bit, let's unpack, let's see what's,

what happened to your childhood trauma
that you, like, hate people, you

Raphaël: Yeah, that's super strange.

I don't understand.

Yep.

That makes no sense to me.

Fred: yeah,

Raphaël: So with all of this you've
taken this company across borders,

you're operating in a bunch of
communities now you just mentioned

that maybe this would have gone faster
if you were in a different province.

If you could go back to 2015,
and talk to yourself then, like,

what would be the, like, your
top piece of advice to yourself?

Fred: I don't know that
I would change anything,

I think that I, um, I learned
very much on the spot.

So even though we weren't
necessarily the best place to launch

this, we were able to launch it.

Raphaël: Mm hmm.

Fred: We had, uh, you know, we
dealt with the fact that we have

very little farmers to work with.

So a lot of stuff came from Nova Scotia.

You know, things like that, so I think
that building resilience in our program

based on where we were, our demographic
applies to other challenging demographics.

I mean, not all of them.

I mean, I was talking with the Alaska
Food Bank and they're like, can you design

a mobile market that we can fly around?

I was

like,

Raphaël: love it.

So you're going to work on planes next.

Fred: Well, we're actually, what
we're talking about is drones

because you could like daisy chain
drones as a highway of drones.

That delivers these, these heavy
and, and really to be the most

efficient would be a Zeppelin.

Because the Zeppelin can carry,
can lift a large, a large amount

versus if it's just, if it's just
propellers, you can lift a lot, but

it's a massive drone at that point.

So, and then there's air regulations
or whatever, but yeah, we talked about

that, but even then, like in minus 40
some degrees, uh, you know, it's, it's

difficult, it's difficult to, and that's
why we have the same challenges up north.

If I can find a solution that's
affordable, then there's a lot

of individuals and families
that could benefit from it.

But I don't know what
it is other than, Yeah.

Raphaël: I hear Zeppelin
and I just get very excited.

I feel like I've seen like, Yeah,

Fred: it's, it's, uh, there's a few
startups that I saw in San Francisco

working on this, uh, the challenge
is the wind, obviously it will drag

yourself out of the way pretty fast.

And so there's no perfect solution yet.

So until we find out, um, you know,
maybe build robots to build a train track

that we don't have to worry about it.

I don't know, like what's going to be the.

Raphaël: yeah.

I love the idea of just, I don't
know, zeppelins just seem cool.

Maybe it's just that I like
steampunk aesthetics, but I,

uh, I want to see more
zeppelins flying around.

Fred: Yeah.

They're changing the gas now too.

So it's not, I don't
know what they're using.

Helium.

Raphaël: I think that sounds right
because I think helium's inert.

Fred: that doesn't count.

Yeah.

Because the other one was,
I don't know what it was.

Raphaël: Hydrogen?

Fred: Hydrogen.

Raphaël: I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Fred: That sounds like a bad
idea, but they, they tried it.

Raphaël: They did.

It was a bad idea.

Fred: Yeah.

Raphaël: Yeah.

, cool.

Well, this is the Small Tech Podcast.

So, Fred, do you have a
small tech product to plug?

Fred: Yeah, let's see here.

I have this thing here that I
really like it's called Anchor.

I just picked something out of my desk.

so this is Anchor makes
this, it's pretty new.

It's a battery, but it's
also a wireless charger.

And when you're on the plane, it
turns into a little, a little stand.

Raphaël: Oh, neat.

That is cool.

Fred: magnetic, holds your phone
this way or this way or whatever.

It charges your phone and then it slips
in your pocket, a little USB C charger.

It goes to the anchor.

Pretty, pretty awesome

Raphaël: Yep.

That sounds pretty great.

Fred: I was like, this is hardware.

I'm a hardware guy

Raphaël: Yeah, you got to
pick a hardware product.

Nice cool.

Well, thank you so much, Fred.

This was really great.

Really fun learning, about all of the
stuff you've been doing and like the

journey that you took to get there.

Um, I feel like I could ask you a billion
more questions, but, 30 minutes, I

think is already a good chunk of time.

So,

Fred: Yeah,

Raphaël: yeah,

Fred: I appreciate the, I mean,
every time we get a chance to talk

about what we do and we can inspire
someone to try to do a mobile market

in their community or somebody who's
like, hey, I got tons of money.

I'd totally go down
and invest in this guy.

Yes, do

Raphaël: Yep.

Awesome.

Fred: Yeah.

Raphaël: Cool.

Well, thank you so much.

See ya.

Folks.

That was my conversation with Fred
Laforge of the farmer's truck.

I had so much fun chatting with him.

I learned a lot.

Doing hardware, something
really different.

It feels very much like
a whole other beast.

If you have the skills to do the kind
of maintenance that he was talking

about, you should get in touch.

We will link to the farmer's truck.

In the show notes.

But if you feel like typing in the
URL, it is farmerstruck.com that

is spelled as you would expect
it to be just farmer's truck.com.

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If you need help building digital
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