raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Hey
folks, and welcome to another episode

of the Small Tech Podcast by EC.

I'm your host, Raph, and today
we have another amazing guest.

She has co-founded a few different
companies, including EarthProof, which

was acquired and she is currently
the co founder of R&G Strategic,

which is the sustainability agency.

She is an amazing designer
and a wonderful person.

She is Liz Gosselin.

Hi, Liz.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
Hi.

Wow.

Thanks.

Great intro.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: So,
it's very exciting to have you on the

podcast today because we worked together
on a few different projects and I know a

fair bit about you and your background,
but I'd love to dig in a little bit more

and yeah, learn about how you do what
you do and how you got to where you are.

So I was curious.

If you could tell me a little bit about
your story, like how did you get into

design and branding and yeah, how did
that, how did that all come about?

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
that happen?

I think it's kind of cool.

Our paths did overlap at a few points too.

So I started out at Concordia University
in fine arts, which I think we just

missed each other there because
you were also around the school.

and then I moved over to NASCAD and I
started into design, which through that

I think I really knew throughout I wanted
to start my own business at some point.

but the design element was really fun,
so it was kind of a good multi purpose

education where I was learning some
skills, but also knew I wanted to come

out of it and become an entrepreneur.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: that's

so interesting to me because
I was kind of the opposite.

I was just looking for a job
and had trouble and I was like,

I guess I'll do my own thing.

How did that, like, manifest in
you, when you were in school?

Like, did, did you, were you trying
to build things before you graduated?

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
I think I was always excited seeing other

people build things, and the startup
community where I met you was always cool

to kind of hop in and see what people
were building, so I was kind of always

looking at ideas, what to do, I think, I
thought there was going to be quite a few

years of taking jobs, but I had a similar
moment to you after school where I was

like, I think the better option actually
is just working for myself right away.

So yeah, just dove straight into that.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
yep, Volta was pretty awesome.

So you actually had connections to
Volta, like, you had been to Volta before

graduating, like, you were hanging out
there while you were still at NASCAD?

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
It wasn't while I was still there, it

was after, but I did get introduced a
bit into like the DALL startup space,

where they'd incubate a few companies.

And I think I was just always excited
by people starting things, so I knew

it was coming for me eventually.

Did you know it was coming
for you, or was it a

surprise?

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
No, for me it was a bit of a surprise.

I was kind of hoping for a job.

I mean, to be fair, I was trying to
build stuff while I was in university.

I just didn't think it could ever be real.

Yeah.

So, I was

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
What's the first thing you built?

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: 3D
animation, and I wanted to get into the

movie industry, I had this idea that
I would build a render farm and that

there could be a nice online interface.

I had this idea for an app
that was called Critical.

But it was spelled really, really
poorly, where it was like, creative

collaboration, so just cre a l it made
not a whole lot of sense, but I started

trying to build that, and was like, oh,
this is actually gonna be pretty tough.

I just wanted to build

cool

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
a long road.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
for 3D animators and stuff.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
cool.

To give you credit, the name
probably was cool at the time,

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah,

yeah, back in the late 2000s.

Dropping vowels or mashing
stuff together, yeah,

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
whatever get your .com, you just take it

out.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
yeah, exactly.

yeah, so when you graduate at
NASCAD, you get into this startup

environment, and then what happens?

You start doing stuff
with tech companies, Okay.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
Yeah, it was actually pretty cool, I

remember I volunteered at a Volta event,
but I'd never been to Volta, and then

I ended up going to the space, and
everybody was just like, here's work

you can do, and it was just this magical
little environment, and I feel like

within three days, I just had contracts,
like people were so Happy to see a

designer showed up in the space, and I
was really excited about what they're

doing, what they're trying to build, and
it was just a really nice spot to land.

you know, a free desk, free pizza, it
was like the perfect out of school.

I've arrived to my new job, even
though it's not an official job.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yep.

It was really kind of a
magical space that way.

I don't know.

Do you have any like particular
memories of that time that you're like,

yeah this was the moment that I was
like, this is what I'm going to do.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
that's a good question.

I feel like it was just like, showing
up and everybody just being so

encouraging and like, bump into it.

I think you go into other spaces
and people are like, oh, that's

not safe, that's a risk, it's
something they're not familiar with,

or something they haven't done.

Yeah.

So they're trying to like caution you
like, oh, there's less job security.

You're not going to get health insurance.

You know, like their mind goes all these
places, but you show up in a space like

Volta and everybody's already doing it.

I was like, of course you can do this.

And like, you don't, you
don't feel like the outsider.

You're just like, yeah,
yeah, let's do this.

Like this is a normal day.

Whereas if you went to like any other
workspace, I feel like you might

have more hesitation around you.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
for sure and so I guess with those

projects and like, with that support,
what do you find most inspiring,

like getting into a project?

What, what helps you get
those creative juices flowing

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
I

always kind of like the
core of the project is the

people and the purpose of it.

So like, you meet people, they're really
excited about something, you want to help

them out, especially if it's something
that's going to have big impact or

like, you know, help with sustainability
or change your community, those are

times you start to feel really excited.

And then helping them form strategy to
communicate more effectively, people in a

different way than maybe they thought of
is when you really start to excited and

want to be part of those projects, which I
think you probably share a sentiment with,

with, the you've positioned your work.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
that definitely, that resonates

a lot So maybe we can dive deeper
into that so sustainability, that's

a thing that you find motivating,
that's a thing that I find motivating.

How does your work change between, I
mean, some of those startups and that

community presumably had some of that,
which is how you find that world.

But then moving from something that
doesn't have that kind of impact

to something in the sustainability
space, is there anything that

changes for you in the process?

Is there a different way of thinking?

Like what do you do differently when
you move into the sustainability space?

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
I think there was kind of a process

of changing my thinking over time.

Like, there were things that were
initially exciting, like building

my first business, getting my
first customers, like, you know,

all those things felt exciting.

And then the work started to
fall flat and not have meaning.

Like, I realized the work I was
doing wasn't really, wasn't really,

making any change or doing any
good, even though like maybe it was

helping that business, it wasn't
enough for me to like stay satisfied.

So once you sort of move into the
sustainability space, I feel like

everyone working on a project is
working for something bigger than

that's just the business as well.

So I think you just naturally surround
yourself with a different type of person

who's working beyond the nine to five.

They're working because they're really
passionate about what they're doing.

They really believe in the
project they're working on, it,

it just changes the whole mood.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah.

Is there anything sort of
mechanically that changes?

Like the work that you would do in
a traditional context versus these

types of contexts, is there anything
that changes in the workflow?

Like how you talk to people, how you sort
of conceptualize a brand or a design.

Or is it kind of the same, but just now
you've got that motivation to get it done.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
say the way we set up our team

is definitely different now
because we're half sustainability

consultants, half marketing agencies.

So the way we work together really
changes, it changes what we do a lot.

But if you kind of back up to just
being a designer for any company,

these are still principles you
should be applying to your work.

And making sure people aren't
greenwashing, making sure

they're being transparent, Like
there's a lot of homework to

do that you're responsible for.

You can't just like take whatever they
want and put it on because they're

probably missing knowledge too.

Thanks a lot.

that's kind of an interesting gap
that we're filling, and I think

that changes our whole workplace.

That if somebody has a concern, we have
a team to resource, and our clients are

valuing that part of our team as well
to help guide them, so their outcome

is actually transparent, and something
they can be saying and representing

with their brand or working towards.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
yeah, That makes a lot of sense.

Like, okay.

So there's a thing that you
said there that makes me wonder,

specifically, are there things that
are difficult in working in this space?

Like if people don't, I don't know,
recognize, for example, what they

might be diving into from a client's
perspective, if you're doing reporting

for a client and they perhaps don't
fully understand what you need from them.

is there anything
particularly difficult there?

Like how do you get around
those kinds of issues?

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
say with a project as big as reporting,

like we're looking really early on in
those phases of like, is this a good match

for a project with the client as to like,
how much knowledge does your team have?

Who's doing what?

Like, these are all the
things that need to get done.

And if you're a first time
reporter, like, there's a lot to

learn, and there's a lot to do.

And it's a lot of manpower internally.

So it is kind of balancing,
you know, here's what we can

provide and our knowledge.

Thanks.

So they know what they're onboarding
to long term like it's also okay if

people are missing internal gaps because
our team can kind of step in and fill

them as well and help teach them what
needs to be done or set them up so they

can do it themselves the next year.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah.

That makes sense.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
Yeah.

I think some of these problems rise more
when people are like coming with good

intention with a new business and they
want to be sustainable, but they don't

necessarily have hours or the resources.

everything properly.

So they're coming to you
with good intention and an

open mind, which is great.

oftentimes people just have like,
they learned in the past that aren't

necessarily accurate, like around
packaging and the impact of the packaging.

just be like, I need glass.

I just, I need glass.

It's sustainable.

And did you check if it's sustainable?

Like, are we, what are we comparing it to?

How are we presenting this?

Like you can't just write sustainable
on that label because you pick

glass and it's not plastic.

Like not being plastic is
not good enough to say that.

So it's often those conversations
that are the harder ones where

there's like such a large and
there's so much for that entrepreneur

to figure out if they're a small
business, how to source all the right

materials, what actually makes sense.

Like it's just a really hard
job for a small business.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
yeah, that makes sense.

Um, I was at a session recently that
was talking about ESG reporting and

the companies there were all early
stage startups and they were, it

was neat because they were trying to
think about it and they were trying

to think in this case specifically
in like a more digital context.

but yeah, it was, it was cool.

It's cool to see them thinking about
it, but also interesting to sort of note

that, you know, there's this whole like
group of people and organizations who

want to do this kind of stuff but the

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
Mm hmm.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
point is, is pretty tough.

Like getting into it and understanding
what reporting means and how

you collect data and how you.

I don't know, make sure
that it all makes sense.

Was pretty overwhelming, really.

A lot of people there are kind of
like, oh, I, yeah, uh, I guess we'll

start thinking about it but not sure
we're actually gonna be able to do it.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
really, it's a big job, but often the

best route is just to take small pieces
of it and say, it's year one, this is our

first try, and this is what we're going
to accomplish year one, and we're going

to build up every year on top of that.

Unless you're a really large
organization, you can just staff

your whole department and get going.

often that is the approach.

You're like, okay, this year we're
going to figure out, you know,

our greenhouse gas emissions.

And we're going to publish
those and do them properly.

And then next year, we're going
to do a materiality assessment.

And next year, we're going to keep,
you know, repeating everything every

year, but just add on one by one,

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: yeah.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
because it is a lot to do.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yep.

actually I'm kind of curious how many
digital first, if that makes sense,

like software style organizations
do you find do this relative to

non software, if that makes sense?

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
That's interesting, a lot of our clients

have like materials, so like mining
materials, for example, or like, they

have a lot of spaces and buildings.

So they're less, digital focused, but I
mean, a lot of the big tech companies are

really thinking about this and tracking
it because they use a lot of power

and resources in a very different way.

yeah, I'm not as sure about like the small
tech space and where they're at right

now, I think it is officially
top of everyone's mind.

It's top of investors minds.

Like, people are asking more
questions than they ever have.

Yeah, I feel like I see people also
asking questions about like, okay,

where are we going to host this?

Like, does that data host or that
data center have, green power

and what does that actually mean?

I see some of the cloud providers
saying like, yeah, we are aiming

to be fully renewable by whatever
year or wind powered and whatever.

Does that, is that
showing up more for you?

think that's showing up, like, people
are starting to understand they have to

ask more questions and they can't just
keep doing business as usual and figuring

out where they can make improvements
over time, so if their website or their

tool is a big part of their business,
that is now a bigger consideration.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah.

That makes sense.

So you, you do that kind of work, the
reporting work, you do also like branding

and marketing and you work with a
variety of like sizes of organizations.

but you also do things like when, when
you told me about MyKidsFuture and sorry,

just to make it clear I do not have a kid.

It's a project called
MyKidsFuture for anyone listening.

, But, yeah, you came to me and
you said, hey, there's this

thing we're trying to build.

Are you interested in being involved?

Like how do projects like
that come about for you?

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
back to what we were talking about before.

It's about the project and the people.

So a member of our team came in
and was saying she was really

struggling with climate anxiety.

She had a really young kid at the time,
and she was expecting her next one.

So it was really hard for her,
having all of this knowledge, being a

sustainability consultant on our team.

And really knowing what the
future looked like for her kids

and feeling so stuck in it.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: hmm.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
And we kind of had an internal

chat of like, what can we do?

And she said, maybe I can put
my letter to my MP on the blog.

And we were all just like,
I feel like everyone's just

kind of apathetic right now.

Like, there's so much scary
news happening every day.

And it's so much to consume.

And then like, you don't
even know how to act on it.

And that's kind of what triggered
us to be like, oh, we just

have to take away the action.

Like, let's give people the info
and like, let them act on it easily.

Because.

It's way too much for anybody
to research this on their own.

Like it's so deep so hard to know if
what you're looking at is accurate and

then to feel confident writing a letter.

That's like a couple
days of work right there.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: yep,

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
Yeah.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
So okay, you have this motivation,

which it is, it's a very
scary thing to think about.

And, and so you decide
you're going to build it.

Like what was your thought process
as you start to design the site,

figure out like what the user
experience is going to be like.

Like, so in the end it's this for anyone
who doesn't know mykidsfuture.ca it's a

site where you can put in some details
about a child and you get back this card

this image, which explains what the future
looks like for them in their province.

and then down below, there's a pre filled
letter that you can send to your MP with

your child's details, embedded there.

So it just takes a lot of
work out of the process.

so yeah, how did, how did that
user experience come to life?

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
we were really lucky on this one

where you were so excited about it
too, because there's always like

limitations starting a new project
as to what can we actually build.

So kind of coming to you with my
wishlist of like, I would, I mean,

internally at R&G, we always say we want
to you know, hearts and change minds.

And apply that to this idea, it was
like, how do we give people information

that just really moves them and changes
them in a way they can do something?

So like serving them that piece of
information that might be really hard

to read because it's your kid's future,
but then being able to look through

and say, okay, I can't change this.

I can act on this.

And this is really important information
that kind of pulled all of this together.

So I think that initial idea, and
then being lucky enough to have

your collaboration of we can build
this in a really cool interactive

way was just great timing.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
Yeah, I was so excited to work on it.

I feel like it's a great project.

It makes me feel good about what we do.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
Mm

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
Yeah, I like that there's

also this call to action.

It's not just a, Hey, here's some
information to make you worried,

but here's like a thing that you
can do to like actively make change

which is, I think, super important.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
good.

And I, I think the tone of
the language too really helps.

So that letter, we've even been getting
messages that people's MPs are actually

phoning them back and spending time on the
phone with them because the letters really

moved them because it was so personal.

I think people are sending in
letters about their own kids and what

they love and why they're afraid.

And it's, different than a campaign where
everybody just blasts out the same letter.

excites you about coming on board
to a project like MyKidsFuture?

Like, is it a mix of how it's built
and the creativity that you're coding,

or is it just about the impact?

Like, where do you find that middle ground
of, tech project and it's also impactful

mm

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
There's like, from my perspective,

I'm personally quite motivated
by technical sort of challenges.

So I like to think about how data moves,
how you like manage infrastructure

and, and that sort of thing and so
I think there was a part of me that

was like, okay, the idea of like
dynamically generating this image.

So that you can share it and you have
this artifact, digital artifact, as

opposed to just like something on a page.

so for anyone, technical who's listening,
like one of the things that we do is

we actually generate this card with
details that are personalized to the

information to the child's details.

And it turns into the
sharing card for the page.

So if someone shares the URL.

On Facebook, on Slack, Twitter, wherever,
that image will pop up as the sharing

card and so things like that, I find fun.

but of course the starting point has to
be has to be motivating in and of itself.

Like I find that working on a technical
challenge without a context that

motivates me just becomes a drag.

Then I'm like, okay, I'm
doing this technical stuff.

That's kind of interesting, but for what?

so I feel like that, that intersection
is, is really important for me.

Like the flip side as well.

Like if I do something that's
for a very motivating mission.

But it's a WordPress site.

I'm not interested.

Um, and you know, there are some WordPress
sites that, you know, there's some,

some complexity there that's kind of
fun to poke around at, but generally

it's not, it's not my cup of tea.

so yeah, building this
was, was really exciting.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
was definitely something special.

I even really saw it come out like
once we hit design, like there's so

much conceptually about this idea and
then the technical aspect behind it.

But even the logo and the curves
we put in the site just really

represented like the windy road
everybody's on right now of like,

what is all this information?

What's happening?

Where are we going?

Like there's just this uncertain future.

And I think the site really
played it up in like this really

friendly, approachable way.

That's also kind of a fun story as well.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah.

Yeah.

I feel like it came together
really, really nicely.

Yeah.

Between the visuals and the
experience and all of that.

Um, yeah.

yeah.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
Yeah,

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: I like

seeing

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
everyone should go check it

out.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: go,
go mykidsfuture.ca if you're listening,

if you're on your phone, maybe.

It's, it's mobile friendly.

If you were speaking to a younger you
with all of the stuff that we've talked

about, all of the things that you've
learned, all of the cool stuff that

you've built, is there any advice you
would give to you from 10, 15 years ago?

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
think it is just remembering that if you

want to do something that people around
you haven't done before, don't expect them

to get on board and be your cheerleaders
and have advice for you because they've

just never done it before, so like, really
go and find those spaces that encourage

what you're doing and can support you,
like a startup space like, maybe something

for like women in tech if you want to
build something just places you can be

encouraged and feel You know safe and
heard and that what you're doing is valid

because I think surrounding yourself by
those people who are in the same space

as you just really helps you kick off.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
Amazing.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
you find that too?

Landing in Volta?

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
Oh yeah, for sure.

For Volta, like.

I found another community here in
Vancouver that I found really lovely,

which is Launch Academy, but there was
something about Volta in particular.

I think the fact that you could
go in and work from the space.

With zero dollars you can just go hang
out and sit at a desk, have some internet,

connect with some cool people and just,
they, I feel like they did a good job

of like curating the community, right?

Like saying, okay, yeah, you feel like you
would be a good fit for this community.

You've got like skills or
something to contribute.

Are you willing and ready
to like help people out and

participate and stuff like that?

And yeah, I feel like they, they
built an environment that was

so conducive to getting people
interested in, entrepreneurship,

interested in tech and how you can
do something cool with that yeah.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
they really did.

I feel like looking back at
that time too, it's just like a

reminder to just show up in those
spaces and be your authentic self.

Like, it's okay to go in and
not be, like, for the job you're

looking for at the end of it.

Like, it's okay to just show up with
excitement and questions and curiosity

and tell people what you're dreaming
of because they'll step in and help

you out instead of you all the mistakes
you'll make along that journey,

right?

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah.

Totally.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
mistake are you laughing about

there?

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
Uh, so many

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
So many, I

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah.

Yeah.

But having that community around to
just help you out, be like, it's okay.

Like you can, you can get past
this, you can get through this.

yeah.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
Yeah, or probably the person next to

you already made the mistake and is so
happy to share how they didn't do that

before you just run straight into it.

So,

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah.

Also free pizza, free pizza's.

Always good.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
gets you far.

Free pizza and Red Bull.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
Um, okay.

Yeah,

Sorry go.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
was just gonna say I don't

need that Red Bull anymore.

I don't know about you,

but

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
Did I ever tell you that I, when, uh,

when I was at Volta, I had this thing
where I went to the gym afterwards and

my head just felt like it exploded.

Did I tell you about that?

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
I think so.

And you're not the only
person that happened to.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
And then the doctor's going, you

got to cut down on the Red Bulls.

Yeah.

Too much free Red Bull.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
much.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Cool.

So I think one last thing, we like to
wrap these up with a small tech product

recommendation, which I think I asked
you if you had something ready, but

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
I kind of want to go ahead and recommend

you go check out MyKidsFuture and send
a letter to your MP because it's very

much on theme for this podcast today.

And everyone should be writing a letter
on behalf of somebody in their life.

raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613:
I love it.

That is a great recommendation.

So again, mykidsfuture.ca
go check it out.

Send that letter.

it's important cool.

Well, thank you so much, Liz.

It was really fun chatting with you.

It's always fun chatting with you.

Um, and thanks for coming on the podcast.

liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613:
Thanks for having me, Raph.

This was great.

Thronmax MDrill One Pro & USB Video:
And that was my conversation with the

amazing Liz Gosselin of R and G strategic.

You can find her, her work, her
company's work at rgstrategic.com.

You can find us at smalltechpodcast.com
and on YouTube, on Spotify and

everywhere else where fine podcasts
are sold or, you know, distributed.

So like, and subscribe,
it really helps us out.

If you head to smalltechpodcasts.com,
you can find the newsletter.

And if you want to be a
guest on the podcast in the

future, just reach out to us.

We would love to talk to you about your
journey building small tech products.

Oh, also, go check out mykidsfuture.ca.

We're really proud of the
project and the work we did

with Liz and R and G strategic.

We really hope it can have
an impact here in Canada.

Thronmax MDrill One Pro & USB Video-1: And
that's it for this week's episode and we

all want to do good in the world folks.

So go out there and build something good.

I'll see you in the next one.

See ya.