Raph: /Hey folks, and welcome to this
latest episode of the Small Tech Podcast.

Today we have another wonderful guest.

She is the founder and chief creative
officer of Tiny Souls, a media

company that creates values based
children's content and parenting

resources for early childhood.

She is Shadi Toloui-Wallace.

Hey, Shadi.

Shadi: Hi, thanks for having

Raph: How's it going?

Shadi: Love it.

Just

in my kid's playroom where it's quiet

Raph: Yep.

That

seems appropriate hahaha so yeah, I'm
curious, to learn more about Tiny Souls.

What is it that you do?

Shadi: What do you want to know?

Beyond what I do

Yeah,

Raph: We'll start off with
your high level pitch.

What is Tiny Souls?

Shadi: You just said it in the intro,
it's a values based media company.

And so we create content for children
and their families and educators.

The children's content is
predominantly media based.

We have an animation series, we
have music we have activities all

surrounded on, or based on character
themes, social emotional learning so

we focus on patience, perseverance,
generosity, love, kindness, all the

things that you want your children to be.

And we offer co experience models.

So we have those.

Those, that content for children,
but then also for the caregivers we

provide tools and resources created
by child developmental experts that

help foster and nurture these values
and characteristics in their children.

So, it's a two fold, we offer, two fold
In terms of focusing on both parents

and, or care giver and children that
wasn't really a great pitch, but I

did my pitch was said by you, so yeah,

that's basically it.

Raph: I, it's, yeah, I love
to, it's the, instead of the

five second pitch, it's the 15

Shadi: like, how many floors do we have?

Do we have 37 floors?

But essentially all of the parent
resources are available on an

iOS, Android app and a web app.

And then the children's content is
accessible on streaming platforms.

Raph: Cool.

That, that sounds really cool.

And I'm curious how, why,
how did you end up here?

Like why this company, but
also how did you end up there

as

Shadi: a.

good

Raph: on a.

Your personal journey.

Shadi: Yeah.

So I was a touring musician.

I toured for most of the decade.

Raph: super

Shadi: Yeah.

And I played solo, I played in bands.

And then I got married.

And I was trying to think about how this.

Be coherent with wanting
to have a family one day.

And I struggled to imagine
what that would look like.

I didn't have a lot of living examples
around me and so I started to pivot a

little bit this idea of creating content
for children had always been there.

Had a lot of friends that were going into
parenthood and just saying Shadi, there's

nothing out there that is like meaningful
and uplifting and it's all just garbage,

which I started looking into it and I was
like, Oh my God, it is like there's, we're

baby burrito, baby shark, like everything
for early childhood was just like nursery

rhymes that are they're very outdated.

A lot of them have pagan,
like weird pagan stuff that we

don't like talk about anymore.

And then it was a lot of Rafi and Red
Grammar, like people like that really

brought a lot of like kids quality
content, but that was like the 80s.

And then since then, it's just
been like, how do we entertain?

How do we keep these children engaged
so that they don't bother their parents?

And, but it wasn't, it had
no substance in my view.

And so I started to think about as an
artist, how can I contribute to the space?

How can I elevate it?

How can I uplift it?

But then corresponding to that,
like parallel to that, how do we

also give parents the resources and
tools to then have a conversation

about equity and justice?

Children start to understand what is
fair and unfair from a very young age.

How are we explaining that?

And how are we engaging with them so
that they leave with a little bit more

of an understanding of what equity looks
like, and what patience looks like.

And media, music, especially being
my background, that was an area

that I could really contribute in.

So, I started writing these songs.

I started creating materials corresponding
questions to these songs that I

was writing about patience, about
perseverance, about justice, courage.

And then I started creating
these activities because, one

thing led to another and we're
in the middle of a pandemic.

My tours are being canceled.

I'm stuck at home.

I'm running this podcast past
part time, but then I also have

this free time now and a lot of
time on my own with my husband.

I'm just.

Pouring it into this
idea called Tiny Souls.

And then I started to think about
like activities and resources to

keep parents and children engaged
that are also meaningful and aligned

with these songs that I was writing.

And then I'm sending these ideas off to
friends of mine getting their feedback,

sending them, songs that I've written,
getting their kids to listen to it.

And then lo and behold, my husband becomes
unemployed during the pandemic, his

company got sold and they gave him an out.

And so he's a software engineer.

And so I thought, why don't we package
all of this content that I've created.

into a, an app.

And so he custom built
an app for Tiny Souls.

He ended up getting a job six
months later, but then it was like

weekends, evenings, long weekends.

By that point we had a one,
one and a half year old.

But this idea of Tiny Souls
was like generating interest.

People were liking what
they're seeing about it.

And it's all very modest marketing.

Just stuff that I, would put together
myself or with the help of some friends.

I had some friends that had UX experience.

They're helping with that.

Graphic design experience.

They're helping me with that.

I'm working with a friend of mine who's a
producer and he's producing these songs.

I think.

By the time we hit two years,
I'd have written 30 songs that

were all available on the app.

So we had this idea that was this
nascent idea of this resource that would

be available to parents on this app.

I, I had this hope or this wish that
it would grow into something that could

really benefit educators, grandparents,
nannies, education centers and then

eventually feature a lot of experts.

I mean, I'm not like an expert.

My mom is a childhood, early
childhood expert, so she was helping

me develop all these resources.

I was working on the music and some of
the activities building wireframes I have

no idea what I'm doing, but I'm on Sketch
and I'm trying to design this stuff.

But then my vision was like, later
down the line, hiring friends that are

musicians to contribute to the space,
hiring educators and experts to contribute

to the knowledge base around like this,
values based education and fostering.

And then we had a Kickstarter at the
end of 2020 2022 just to, to, get some

funds together to start pushing out this
beta that we developed and marketing it.

But then I managed to have
some conversations with friends

and they were really excited.

They were just like, you're
sitting on a million dollar idea.

Let's see how we can make
this bigger and have as many

people access this as possible.

And to remove some of those financial
barriers, cause it was like a

subscription, paid subscription app.

And then find other ways to
finance it or, generate revenue.

And so I had one.

One friend give us an angel investor
give us an investment, which kind

of formalized Tiny Souls media
at the end of 2022, early 2023.

But by mid 2023, like last year, this
time last year we had our first hire.

Well, second hire, I hired my friend
Denise to be the CEO of Tiny Souls.

And now we have eight staff.

And then probably I want to say
like between 10 and 15 contractors

that we work with on various kind of
aspects of the product development and

marketing and just content creation.

So.

Yeah, it really blew up very quickly,
but for me, it just, it was all part

of this greater vision that I had.

I didn't have a vision board, but I was
just I saw the need with parents to start

creating, start, to stop reacting to poor
behavior, but to start being proactive

about nurturing these values and fostering
these good qualities, so that you don't

end up seeing the poor behavior later on.

And this kind of starts from day one.

And that's really just like
the point of Chinese Souls.

And our mission is to give
parents the resources and

tools to foster these values.

But we've just been super, super lucky.

I think I've been talking for a long
time, so I'll let you ask a question.

Raph: That was amazing.

That was awesome.

That is what an epic journey.

From touring musician to yeah, creating
this media company and not just like

creating a media company, but growing
it to did you say eight employees

Shadi: Yeah, we have eight employees.

I think eight at least
that are like on payroll.

And then like I said, like 10, between
10 and 15 contractors, some of them

are artists, some of them are content
creators, but I studied business.

I went to business school.

I have a degree in public
relations and communication.

So my goal was to always be
an entrepreneur to have that

entrepreneurial spirit, but also
try and find something that can

contribute to the good in the world

Raph: I love that.

Yeah.

Out of curiosity.

Okay.

So you study business.

Um, but presumably you're doing
music already at, or maybe not.

I don't know.

Like, how did you go from
studying business to then playing

music and then back to being
like, okay, actually let's turn,

Shadi: yeah.

so I never formally studied music.

I just happened to be really good at it.

And people liked I think it's important
to know where your strengths are.

And when there aren't,

you call on help.

And so, my strength has always been
arts and culture and creativity,

especially in like the line of music.

And I've launched five albums that
you can hear on streaming platforms.

And then I played with a Vancouver kind
of, I fronted a Vancouver band called

Tiny Havoc and we played around town
and we did a small tour on the island.

But really my bread and
butter was this solo career.

I did do some administrative work
at a nonprofit for some time.

But music has always been my thing,
but I think it was successful because

I had a business background and I was
able to understand the logistics of

managing, Like a music career so I
came at it with this kind of education

or this background, what have you.

And I was able to sustain myself
for quite some time just off of

touring and living as an artist.

Obviously you have gigs here and there
that you take on that are not music

related to make ends meet, but I was
predominantly just like a musician.

That's just always been my thing.

But then I had this business
degree that really definitely

supported my music career.

I don't know if that
answers your question, but

Raph: Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Shadi: But my parents were always like,
always was like, do what you want to do,

but you have to, it has to be sustainable.

And so I was like, okay, I'm
going to try and do music.

And they were super supportive
as long as you can, make a

living off of it, then why not?

And.

Raph: Why not?

Yeah.

Shadi: obviously it has so much
help, so much support along the way

from friends and family, but that's

basically how my life has been led.

And then now I have

two kids and a mortgage and things change.

Raph: a little bit.

I'm curious how much of, I mean,
it's still a very like related field.

Like you're still doing media.

What things did you learn doing
music that, that you were able

to bring into this new project?

Might be a lot

Shadi: Yeah.

Raph: be not a whole lot.

I

Shadi: I mean, one of the things, like
One of the things that I've learned from

touring, not necessarily music, but from
touring is just like building strong

relationships and building friendships.

And so much of my team and so much
of like how far we got with just,

bootstrapping everything was just through
connections and through friendships and

Oh, we need someone that can do that.

Oh, I know somebody, and I can trust them.

And so I think it's touring came from
a lot of hustling, a lot of networking,

like knowing people all around North
America, all around South America, all

around Australasia and all of these
countries to who's a point person that I

can trust to plan something for me, or, I
think it's so much about human relations.

And that's one thing, I guess,
when I study public relations

and building, building strong.

Strong relationships and friendships
and understanding what skill sets other

people have and knowing where I where
I lack that they can help me out on.

I think there's a lot of trust.

I know where I know where my strengths
are and I know where my weaknesses are

and who can I depend on, who can I lean on
that can help build where I'm lacking or

help contribute where I'm lacking and give
them kind of the autonomy and give them

the trust that they need to do that job.

Raph: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

I actually thought as you were talking
earlier and you were describing how

your mom has this background that's
related and your partner is a software

developer and that you've got like
these people in your circles, I was

like, Oh yeah, like you built like
a really strong network of people

Shadi: I have an amazing circle and I,
my meeting with my CEO just came from

just let's have lunch, let's get a
salad and just check in on each other

because I knew she had some branding
background and I'd been showing her

the app as it'd been developing and
she was just, looking for her next

kind of oportunity And I was showing
her the app as, as it was developing,

getting her experience on branding.

And then I, through that lunch, I heard
she's got all these leadership skills or

I learned she had these leadership skills.

Oh, she's got an MBA.

Oh, she's got this, all
this background in finance.

And then jokingly, I was like,
do you want to be my CEO?

And she's actually, I would.

Can I send you my like CV right now?

And so yeah, of course.

And then, this is really crazy.

So like our animation for Tiny Souls
is called Zip in the Tiny Sprouts.

And we found our animation company
through our head of development.

She's no longer with us, but she
basically we created this story bible,

which is essentially like the heart
of this, the show, like the characters

and just like the crux of what the
show is about is in this bible.

And essentially you send this bible
off to a bunch of different animation

studios and production companies and
they pitch you based on that bible.

And so, Brad Montague, who is many people
know him as like the founder of Kid

President, but he's also an incredibly
accomplished writer and illustrator.

He's got a really vibrant
social media presence.

He built our bible.

And so this head of production
took the bible and, sent it off to

a bunch of production companies.

One got back and said, we're not, we're
focusing on slightly older content

for more like teens, pre teens, but
there's this company called K Love

You, Bye they're just formed and this
would be a great project for them.

So we meet with them and a bunch of the,
those guys came from Bluey, which is a

really hit animated series in Australia.

And it happens to be where
I grew up in Brisbane.

And so we're on this call with this guy
in Brisbane and we went to like parallel

high schools and there's like all these
connections and like mutual connections.

And he lives in the same suburb is my dad
right now in Brisbane and there's just

like all of these like weird connections.

And so, and now they're animating
our show and half of my calls are

on Brisbane time, which is like
essentially like the same time zone

as my parents and It's just crazy.

So I don't know what to say, but
like everything that has happened

is just because of these like
really positive connections.

And I think because we're trying to
generate something that will help

humanity that I really think there's
this like karmic like presence around

me and I'm just so grateful and
knock wood everything will be okay.

But just like all these, there's so many
connections or like We did a rebrand

exercise with this company in Melbourne.

And apparently he the guy sat next
to the, my friend who was designing

my album cover 10 years ago.

And he remembers my album
cover from 10 years ago.

And now he's doing our brand
exercise for Tiny Souls.

so it's just so many connections.

And I learned this from my time at
this nonprofit music school called

the Sarah McLachlan School of Music
And speaking with Sarah McLachlan

herself, she was just like, always
be so graceful and you never want to

give anyone a bad experience with you.

Do you know what I'm trying to say?

It's Yeah you just always want to leave
a really good taste in people's mouths.

That's what I'm saying.

But what I understood from
that is she's so graceful.

And no matter how many times
there were challenges in the

media or in the art world.

But she was just always so graceful
and dignified and positive and loving.

And so if you can emulate that, I think
people always want to help you and

see the good in what you're creating.

So that's, yeah, I feel very lucky.

Raph: Yeah, totally.

I feel like there's a thing that
comes from like an openness to like,

to connecting with people and letting
people in and finding people and helping

people out that, that creates this.

Shadi: Yeah.

Raph: the snowball effect of just like
things grow and yeah, it's awesome.

It's really nice to hear how
that, yeah, how all of these like

threads came together in your life.

It's really cool.

I'm curious if you can tell me
a little bit about how tech fits

into all of this, because this is
the small tech podcast, so Yeah,

Shadi: connect.

Well, I mean, the reason why I wanted
my husband to create the app was

because as a parent, as a new mom,
I spend so much time on my phone.

It's crazy.

You're feeding.

You're doing everything.

You're up late at night, you're
trying to stay awake and it's 3 am.

and you're so exhausted, but you've got
to stay awake so you can feed this baby.

And the only thing that's like
your best friend right now is

your phone and you're like on your
phone just to keep yourself awake.

And then you're on your
phone to connect with people.

You're on your phone to get
knowledge and information.

It was just like so important to
be able to have this resource On a

platform like an iOS, Android platform
to make it as accessible as possible.

And even as we've evolved and
we've created video content

it's been so important to, we've
moved from this custom built app.

And in order to scale, we've had to
move into kind of this plug and plug

and play kind of app called Kajabi.

And.

And so that's essentially we've evolved
to that where we're now utilizing

this resource where you can just
upload these videos and you create

the build yourself to how you want it.

But even still the content itself
still has to be super bite sized.

The videos or the audio content
has to be really accessible because

the people that you want to use it.

Don't have time, they don't have
bandwidth to fiddle around and try

to figure out how to, how to navigate
this app or how to access this content.

You want to make it as streamlined as
possible and so that has been, as a

parent of young children myself, like it's
been so important to utilize technology

as, as best as we can so that our
audience feels empowered to, to use it.

Even down to okay, we'll have a web, we'll
have a web app, but I never have, if I'm

not working, I'm not at my computer, I'm
not going to sit there and watch a 10

minute video of two experts talking about
potty training I don't have time for that.

If I do have time, I am on my toilet or
I'm breastfeeding and I have five minutes

to myself to learn something new that
will help me become a better parent and

so, sorry about the toilet reference,
but it's super relatable, I think, to

Raph: it's,

Shadi: You don't have a lot of time
to yourself and some parents prefer

not to be on their phones while their,
their kids are in the room or engaging,

you're engaging with your kids.

So yeah, you just had to make, so
I think having it on these iOS and

Android interfaces and making sure
that content is super bite sized.

It only needs about
two minutes to be read.

Oh, my kid's coming home from daycare.

I just want to do a meaningful activity
about gentleness because this is

something that they could really utilize
right now with a new baby in the house.

And I just have two minutes
to just look for an activity.

Okay.

I'm going to go to my phone and
I'm going to, learn a new activity

with some of the dollar store craft
supplies that I have in the basement.

That's basically what we have created.

And I'm very proud of it because
it took a long time to get there.

And a lot of the qualitative, quantitative
feedback that we were getting.

So I'm, yeah that's how tech is.

And also everyone's remote.

So everything is done online
on Google Meet and Zoom.

Raph: Cool.

With that, I want to dig
in a little bit deeper.

If there's like anything that you
found like surprising like particularly

surprising as you stepped foot into this
kind of tech or even I like to say that

like tech companies, it doesn't have
to just be like writing code, right?

There's tech companies
that are tech enabled.

Right.

I feel like that's you.

Right.

And often there is like some custom
tech and there's things that's that's

custom, it's not code, but it's like
all of the sort of operational tech.

It's how you like piece things together.

And I think that does make a difference
between I'll say a traditional sort

of non tech company and people who
are really like heavily relying

on technology to accelerate what
they're doing or to deliver like

their value to the world somehow.

And so, yeah, I'm curious what you found
as you like stepped into that world.

Shadi: Trying to think of, I'm trying
to put Jason's, my Jason hat on.

IOS is definitely a lot more complicated.

And things actually surprisingly
move sometimes a little slower

than Android and then vice versa.

They don't work in tandem.

So if you're uploading something to
Android, sometimes it could take two to

three days for it to be processed in iOS.

And so if you want to have a launch date
for something, like on the front end, It's

very difficult to do that universally.

So I don't know if this answers your
question, but that's something I've

learned the hard way or how long it
really took us to work with a UX designer

to really understand like how this is
supposed to be used in order basically

we we knew where we wanted to be,
but how long it took us to get there

when it came to UX and UI was like.

A lot more dense and time consuming
than I may have hoped or envisioned,

but also the more time you put into that
process, the better outcomes you get.

So, those are things I think we
overlook and also, there's a reason

why people study this for years because
there's, it's like such a fine line

between a really dysfunctional, ugly
app and a really functional, beautiful

app that is really easy to navigate.

And so putting some resources
and time into investing in that,

I think is really critical.

Because yeah, you want it to be useful.

You're not creating something and
putting it out there for no one to use.

Like you want it to be useful.

So yeah, I think hiring the right
people and giving it enough time to

be of quality, I think is important
and something I've had to learn.

Raph: Yep that makes a lot of sense to me.

Cool.

Well, with that, this is the small
tech podcast, and I believe you

brought in a small tech product
to plug to give a shout out to.

Shadi: other than mine, other than Tiny
Souls one thing as a new parent that I

found really helpful is this app called
Solid Starts, and essentially you can

just look at any food in your fridge
and then you can type in pasta and

then it'll tell you how to introduce
pasta, It'll tell you how to serve

pasta depending on the age of the child.

Raph: Oh, cool.

Shadi: And, it gives you choking
hazards, allergies that they might be

introducing, the nutritional information
and yeah, I literally, as you're

introducing food, to your baby which
is around 5-6 months depending on where

you live I have found this resource
extremely helpful helpful also to start

diversifying their palette exposing them
to different textures different flavours.

Yeah, I did that with my son, and I'm,
I just downloaded it again because

my daughter hit six months, and we've
been introducing solids, so, it's,

yeah, it's been a really wonderful, and
then they also have the first 75 days

of eating solids, and they actually
prepare the menu for you, and you

just have to do it yeah it's a very
helpful app when you're a new parent.

Raph: That's awesome.

I love this kind of I think that
I find really exciting about

this question is that, you just
get all of these like apps that

Shadi: you've

never heard of before.

Raph: so yeah.

And there's so many different like things
that can be addressed somehow with tech.

And that you can help out some, someone
who's having some problem, you could

just build a nice user interface, or
maybe it is a more complex product

that just helps someone out somehow.

I do have another question I'd like to
talk about a little bit which is I'm

curious to hear, Your thoughts on like,
how do you frame, cause the way that

you present your company I forget what
words you use specifically, but you talk

about having a positive impact on the
world, on humanity and that's how we

like to think about our company as well.

We say that we're impact driven.

We're trying to build a
more sustainable future.

And I'd love to hear more
about what that means to you.

Like, how does that drive
your business processes?

Does it affect your technology decisions?

Like what, how does having a positive
social environmental, whatever, I guess

in your case, I don't know how you frame
it, but yeah, how does having a positive

impact like fit into how you do things?

Shadi: Yeah, I mean, it's like I
think having a values based for

profit, you also hire people that
emulate and they share similar values.

And I think one of them, one of them
is building on strengths, building

on strong positive characteristics,
but also this idea of like

growth mindset plays a big part.

It's we're not, the child's,
every individual's learning

is constantly developing.

We're not going to ever be
a finished perfect product.

So as individuals if there is a mistake
made or, something isn't working out, it's

okay, I think that what we're, in terms of
what we're creating and what we're trying

to put out there, we're also practicing
in the way that we operate as a company,

and how, where our values fit in terms
of how we interact and how we operate.

So I've even noticed today, one of
our members on the team call, he just

had a huddle and she kept cutting out
because she was in her phone, she's

on her way to an appointment, but she
really wanted to join the team huddle.

And one of my colleagues was like, she's
persevering, it's okay, guys, we're not

going to get mad there's no point in
getting angry, or, one of my colleagues

was just talking to her daughter, because
her daughter is homeschooled, and she was

trying to work on some art activities.

She's you just have to
be patient with yourself.

It was like, so it's just I would
have never seen spoken those words

before, but now it's like part of
what we're trying to create and

what we're trying to put out there.

So also are we want our team
to also embody this, especially

when we're working so remotely.

Like I haven't met half of my team
ever in person, but we've developed

this relationship through this mutual
investment that we have on Tiny Souls.

But then also these connections
that we were building through,

through the work that we do.

So, yeah.

But you look at the state of the world,
you look at the level of loneliness,

depression, anxiety, but then you also
look at suicide rates, you look at

bullying, and this, sense of otherness
that people are, children are experiencing

in schools and in the community, and
We haven't been doing, as a society, a

good job on lifting these children up
and highlighting the good that they are

contributing to the world or the talents
that they have and how they could be

utilized for the betterment of humanity.

And so Tiny Souls is just rooted
in giving importance to this and

elevating this idea of like growth
mindset, parents are never perfect.

We're always working on our skills how
can we be the best parent that we can be?

But then also let's put stuff out
there that giving them purpose,

understanding how they relate how
they relate to one another as like

parts of one human family how they
contribute, how can they contribute for

the betterment of their communities?

Like all of these are symptoms of a
healing society, but if we're focusing

on putting a band aid or treating this
disintegration, we'll never really get to

the world that we want to be unless we're
really focusing on generating and being

proactive about how we want children to
be and and nurtured and you know these

characteristics are fostered so yeah it's
kind of two fold what we're trying todo

as a team externally what we're creating
for the world and and this all give us

some sense of purpose and motivation.

One last thing, one of the things
our investor had shared with us, he

lives in Highland Park, which there
was a big kind of shooting there, I

think two summers ago during a parade.

And he was super motivated for Tiny
Souls to be, released, unleashed

into the world because he's like,

Raph: Yeah.

Shadi: shouldn't have access to, these
guns and this like harmful, if a child

was exposed to Tiny Souls early on,
like this is, it seems a bit extreme,

but if a child, if this child who went
and, unfortunately, sadly shot a bunch

of people had, been exposed to this,
idea that they're created noble that

they have all these capacities as gifts
to share with the world, would they

have gone and done such a cruel thing?

I don't know.

Who knows, but it's better to
try than not to try at all.

Raph: Totally.

I love that.

That was a great, yeah,
a great description.

I think it's it's a great way
to think about how you organize

yourself, your team, your product,
your thinking around the world.

And yeah.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for sharing

Shadi: Yeah.

My pleasure.

Thanks so much for this opportunity.

It was really nice to reflect with you
and yeah, to share sometimes when you're

just talking, you're like, Oh yeah,
that's something we can do better at,

like just the soundboard is really nice.

Raph: Yeah.

Anyway.

Yeah.

Thank you so much, Shadi.

It was it was really
wonderful chatting with

Shadi: you.

too, Raph.

Raph: and

Shadi: Good luck with everything.

I'm excited to see what
comes of this podcast.

Raph: sounds good.

Thronmax MDrill One Pro & USB Video-1:
Folks.

That was my interview
with Shadi Toloui-Wallace.

And I learned so much.

I hope you did too.

Thank you so much to Shadi
for coming on the show.

Definitely go check out Tiny Souls
at tinysoulsmedia.com or look

for the app in the app stores.

If you haven't already subscribed
to the small tech podcast, go

find us at smalltechpodcast.com.

We do all sorts of interviews like this
with other brilliant entrepreneurs,

other people in the support space
around building small tech products.

People really having a positive
impact on the world with technology.

You can find us on
YouTube, on Spotify, in.

On apple podcasts and any
other podcast app really.

If you need help building a tech product,
you can also come find us at goec.io.

That's G O E C dot I O.

Even if you just want to talk about
your product and get some tips

and pointers, shoot us a message.

We'd love to chat.

And that's it for this episode, we all
want to do something good in the world.

So go out there and build
something good folks.

I'll see you in the next one.

See yeah.