raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: Hey folks,
and welcome to the Small Tech Podcast.

I'm your host, Raph from EC, and
today we have a guest on the show.

He has over a decade experience in
recruitment across Australia, Singapore,

the UK, and Canada, runs events around
AI and machine learning, as well as

software and mobile development, and
he is currently the CEO and principal

consultant at North Technology People.

He is Adam Delgado.

Adam!

Welcome to the small tech podcast.

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
man.

Great to be here.

Thanks for that intro.

I was expecting like, man, it
was a very Bruce Buffer esque.

I was, uh, I was feeling the energy, man.

And thanks for that.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: Yeah.

Yeah.

Nice to have you on the show, man.

How's it going?

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
not too bad.

Not too bad.

No complaints.

Looking forward to a
bit of a sunny weather.

It's still pretty chilly here in Toronto.

So, uh, yeah, looking forward to some
spring and sun and pints on patios.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: Amazing.

Yeah.

Pints on patios sounds great.

So yeah, I was wondering if you could
tell me a little bit about how you got

into recruiting how you got into tech.

Yeah.

How you got here?

What's the story?

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
So a lot of my friends went to

university after straight out
of high school and I Did not.

So I kind of finished high school
and then thought, Hey, I'm just

going to like work for a while.

And I was doing a lot of telesales
stuff, just cold calling.

And then I went and met with
a recruiter for a job and he's

like, Hey, have you ever thought
about a career in recruitment?

I said, no.

He's like, you should.

I'm like, okay.

And that was kind of, you know,
The nudge in that direction.

I, redid my CV a little and started
applying for recruiter jobs.

And then I was really fortunate to join a
boutiques, recruitment agency in Toronto,

uh, sorry, in Sydney, back in the early
2000s, Recruitment Tara was the, managing

director and founder at the time, she
was like old school English recruiter,

Greythorn, Michael Page, Ransdad.

She'd been at all those big shops
and she taught me everything, man.

Tips to tell about 360 recruitment.

So that, that was kind
of how I got into it.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: Amazing.

I'm curious, like when you first
got that question, what did

recruitment even mean to you?

I feel like from my perspective, I
don't even know what that entails.

Is it mostly like reaching out to people?

Do you have to have a bit of technical
understanding of what the people do?

Like what, how does it work?

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
So like the general recruitment is like.

There's two sides to it.

You've got your business development,
which is like sales kind of thing.

And then you've got
your actual recruiting.

And then there's a model
called 360 recruitment, where

it's basically end to end.

I cut my teeth on 360 recruitment and
basically we're a services business.

So we work a lot in the tech
sector across North America.

So our clients are startups, pre seed,
VC funded, all the way up to enterprise.

So we've and they will
give us a requirement.

We picked up a role today, very
fortunate, with a shout out to

Maple Finance, a big DeFi player.

And basically they said that, hey,
we need a VP of capital markets.

So we've got the spec now, we've signed
terms with them, so now we're helping

them go and recruit for this type of role.

Fortunately, we've done this type of
recruitment before, so we've already got

a network of candidates and that's really.

Where a recruiter really earns their medal
is having a network of people that our

clients might not be able to tap into.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226:
Yeah, that makes sense.

And when you first got into
this, was it also tech?

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
Yeah, yeah, so I cut my teeth on systems

and network engineers back when VMware
was a thing and all the storage and stuff.

So that was kind of where I first
started and then hopped around

a little bit, started doing some
More software dev, digital, UX, UI.

And then when I moved to Canada and the U.

S.,

that was really when I started doing
very, very deep into software development.

And then when I started on
technology people, I'm like, Hey,

I want to work with the cool stuff.

I don't want to be like, Oh,
we're just like recruiting PHP.

So I was like, Hey, AI, ML,
data, software, mobile product.

That's our jam.

That's our specialty.

And we've kind of applied those.

Niches across a variety of different
verticals, so we're doing stuff in Web3,

Blockchain, we're doing some cool stuff
in Robotics, our clients are in Quantum

Computing, shout out to Agnostic as
well, they, do some great work in

Quantum in Toronto, so, yeah, that,
that's kind of the long and short of,

of, uh, of our network and our clients.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: That's awesome.

I, out of curiosity, are there
any sectors that you find

are particularly interesting?

Interesting or difficult to recruit
for, or I feel like the AI stuff that's

been booming, you hear about some of
the salaries that the folks working

at places like OpenAI are making.

That's gotta be a very, selective
process and small, small pool of people.

How does it differ across, sectors?

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
it's a good question.

I mean, tech, why I loved it and why
I've always recruited in tech, there's

always something new coming out.

There's always new
technology, new framework.

So, being in that sector, there's,
always the new shiny thing.

And as I said, we founded in Jan 2020,
just before the pandemic kicked off,

focusing on AI and machine learning.

Whilst it was a market, it
wasn't the sexy gen AI chat post

chat GPT world that we live in.

So it is definitely supply and demand
and that really ties into salary.

So when the demand is up, gen AI, if you
look at any hardware skills in like ASIC,

FPGA, CPUs, GPUs, the compiler technology,
that stuff, man, red hot at the minute.

It's really, really hard

to find people.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: Yeah.

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
uh, yeah, but I mean, what we've seen on

the other end of the market is obviously
all the layoffs that happened in the

last kind of 12 ish, 18 months in the U.

S.

tech market, that's kind of, we had that
follow on effect here in Canada, when

there are massive layoffs, the shoe's
on the other foot, now the demand is

decreased, and there's a huge supply of
candidates, so that, formula generally

puts downward pressure on salaries.

When there's increased demand,
candidate shortage, that's

when the salaries are going up.

And that's exactly what we're
seeing at the minute in those

kind of AI hardware verticals.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226:
Yeah, that makes sense.

Also, since you brought up that
effect from the US coming into

Canada, you've done this in a
few different parts of the world.

Do you see big differences in, the
process in different countries, or maybe

even just like from legal perspectives?

Like how does it all work?

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
It's really interesting, man.

If you take a look back at any, if
you, I'm just going to pick random

countries, say Australia, and we're
really close to like Indonesia, and

then we've got, China and Japan and
the Middle East and UK and Europe and

North America, if you go and walk around
the streets, what is typical behavior

and what is acceptable in one region?

You take that to another region and you
might find yourself in a little strife.

So what I found was really interesting
is that every country you live in

has these different cultural norms.

And there are pros and cons, I find,
to every region that I've lived in.

I find that, If we take the UK and
Australia and the APAC region, very

direct, it is quite transactional where
people are, you know, I don't necessarily

need to have a brand or a reputation
or a connection with this person.

They're like, Hey, you're a recruiter.

Hey, here's some good candidates.

Sure.

I'll take a look.

Let's try it out.

Whereas here in the U S and Canada,
that type of business approach, it

still might happen, but it's a very,
It's a much smaller amount of success.

So it's very relationship driven, but
then if you go to somewhere in Asia,

again, it's going to be different.

So it was just, I find getting used
to those different cultural norms.

And I mean, we've been
in Canada now since 2017.

So certainly I find that we've
adapted to what is norm, but I

still have a particular style about
how I do my work and how I meet

people and such.

Some people.

Um, I don't want to say love or hate,
but it, it kind of comes down to that.

So some people like don't
respond well to it at all.

Like, oh,

it's too strong.

I did a disk assessment.

Strong D personality,
just like down the line.

Let's talk, the nuts and bolts of it.

Whereas I find sometimes people need a
bit of fluffy couple of conversations.

So I'm like, ah, whatever
it, work with me or don't.

It doesn't make that much of a difference.

I'm here to help.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: Yep.

That's fair.

Piggybacking on that question.

I'm curious.

Do you all work like the way you all work?

Is it, just so you recruit four
firms in North America and is

the talent pool you're looking
at always going to be folks?

In North America, or do you also look
to the rest of the world either for

remote roles or do these companies
sometimes, want to look worldwide

to perhaps bring someone into,
to, their North American offices?

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
So during the pandemic,

everyone was like remote first,

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: Yeah.

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
we recruited across, I found that

when we picked up roles, it was
quite, broad across, the globe,

especially in web three, if you're
like web three, blockchain, DeFi,

those clients were just like anybody,
anywhere, just find me the best people.

so it does only see, saw that.

Traditionally when we first started, we
only did Canada and then it was after

about six ish, 12 months that we're like,
Hey, there is so much more business to

be had in North America or in the States.

So we, won a few accounts in the
US, but I'd say primarily our main

network and our main focus is in
Canada but through that, obviously

it's hard to ignore the US there.

Yeah, and one point as well, you're
talking about bringing people in

and around, there are, recruitment
businesses that have, they specialize

in bringing international talent for
Canadian companies, but what I think

is interesting to note on companies
that offer that type of model, we're

missing out on the Canadian talent.

So there's a lot of people in Canada
who are like, Hey, can I please work?

And then there are companies that
are like, Hey, we can hire you this.

Dude from Mexico or this person
from Pakistan or whatever, and

they'll bring them over on a visa.

And it's been to the detriment
of local Canadian talent.

So I think, yeah, just at the
end of the day, there's a lot of

people who can do a lot of work and
there's a lot of companies hiring.

It's, we're just matchmakers
at the end of the day.

And, we spend a lot of time building
our network and our brand and these

so as, when, and if the role comes
up, Hey Presto, we've already got

a good network of people there.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: Yeah.

That makes sense.

Out of curiosity, as a North
American firm, do you also,

would you do recruiting?

Would you work with a company
outside of North America who wants

to recruit North American talent?

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
small business, man.

We're not too picky.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226:
yeah, yeah, anyone.

Okay.

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
yeah, really,

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226:
Yeah, that's fair.

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
you know, in Europe said,

Hey, we want to build a team
in Toronto, Happy to help them.

If a , UK company or let's say a US
company, for example, wants to hire

in Toronto, hey, we can do that.

Another point I'll just highlight as well
about the whole pandemic thing, when we

kicked off the pandemic in Canada, It blew
up the market, man, because all these U.

S.

tech companies were hiring,
and they were poaching a lot

of really good Canadian talent.

So what that meant is, it's driven the,
it's increased the demand for Canadian

engineers, and therefore increased the
salaries, which is why, during that

peak pandemic, we saw salaries going
crazy, and now, a lot of people are

talking about this whole, tech downturn.

It's kind of, we're balancing
ourselves out a little bit.

A lot of these tech companies had
these huge valuations, so now it's kind

of like, hey, we're settling back to
something that's a little more stable

mind you, if you're an AI company,
maybe a different story, but,

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: Yeah.

Yeah, that's true.

So North technology people, is
that your first, first foray into

building a business yourself?

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
Yes,

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: Yeah.

How's that going?

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
Champagne and razorblades.

There's an old saying in recruitment,
champagne and razorblades.

You're either popping corks because you
made placements and everybody's happy and

you're making money, or it's razorblades
where you're like, oh my god, this is very

hard, and I'm having some dark thoughts.

So look, man, honestly, I
wouldn't trade it for the world.

I was really fortunate where I had
a little, bit of cash lying around

where I'm like, Hey, you know what?

I could probably see myself through for
the next three, six months without a job.

Want to

start making some money.

So it was pretty touch and
go for the first six months.

Cause like I said, we incorporated, I
think it was like 14th of Jan, 2020.

And then literally two

weeks later, we're

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: rough timing.

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
bad, really.

But, you know, we, I said, we had some
cash to tide me over for a little bit.

It was pretty scary thinking,
Hey, what, what's happening?

And I think everybody
was in the same boat.

but Yeah.

first business learnt a
ton, learnt from failing.

I guess, I don't know if people are too
proud to say that, but Hey, guess what?

You learn so much more from a
mistake than you do from a success

because you're like, Oh, it worked.

But if you fail,

you're like, ah sometimes you have
to learn that lesson the hard way.

So.

It's been awesome.

I've hired and trained and coached and
managed people from zero recruitment

experience to be highly proficient.

A lot of these people have now gone
on for other roles and, for turnover

and sometimes it didn't work out with
particular people, but, I'm really happy

with, uh, I'm excited about what we've,
what I've built and I think we've done

some great work for some great companies.

So, uh, yeah, certainly happy with, with
how things are, but, certainly not the

only thing I'm working on at the minute.

Got a little stealth tech startup I'm
working on at the minute, um, with, uh,

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226:
A small tech product.

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
It is a small tech product.

Yes, it is.

Yes, it is.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: Yep.

Awesome.

Is there anything you can tell
us about that or is that still

keeping that quiet for now?

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
No, yeah, so.

I'll, I don't want to, you know obviously
this is going to go out to a live audience

and we're still definitely in that stealth
mode, but hopefully we can reveal in the

next couple of weeks but basically it's
in the recruitment sector and, having

done a ton of research about what else
is out there, a lot of people are trying

to, automate the job of a recruiter,

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: Yeah.

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
which is kind of like

this AI for everything.

Oh, it's going to be AI AI for this,
and where I come back to is like.

Is AI necessarily, is it the right hammer?

Is it the right tool for this problem?

And I think everybody's
just hitting things with AI.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226:
There's so much of that.

It's true.

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
yeah, totally.

So we're definitely utilizing AI.

It's in the recruitment space and sector.

But I can comfortably say I have
not through dozens of hours of

research, I have not found any global
competitors that are doing what we do.

So I'm pretty sure, pretty
sure, man, once we launch.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: Yeah.

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
mean, I'm, I'm totally like tooting

my own horn here, but we're, I really
do think we're going to disrupt.

I mean, I know again, that, yeah, man,
you're talking a big game, once, once we

launch what we've built and what I have
in my mind, I don't think recruitment

will be done the same way again.

And we're really trying to solve problems.

You know, everybody's like,
oh, let's automate recruitment.

And I'm like, sure, you guys do that.

We're going to go over
here and build this thing.

And then hopefully we're
going to eat your lunch.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: Well,
maybe in a few months we should have

you back on and you can talk about
your, product development journey.

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
Mate, I would absolutely love it.

I've been super inspired to,
to build something like this.

And it's now, it's not, I want to
actually transition out of North

technology people and, and work on
this startup full time this year.

That's obviously going to be super
difficult, but it's, what I, what

I want to do, and, we're going to
apply for YC in a couple of weeks.

So crossed, we'll see.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226:
Yeah, fingers crossed.

That's super exciting.

Man, building, products is just,
it's also just so much fun.

Like, I love it, have you found
that so far the product development

stuff, exciting, difficult?

Was it what you were expecting?

Was it not?

Like, how's that going for you?

Yeah.

I'm a, I'm a sales guy.

That, that's what I've for
the last 15 years or so.

I don't want sales guy anymore.

I want to, I, and where I think my
skills, my recruitment background

will really compliment a tech
company is on that product.

So having listened to a bunch
of podcasts and events and heard

a lot of smart people talk.

Yourself, Raph, last week on
our show, appreciate that one.

You know, there is a, there is certainly
a recipe that people suggest in building

tech products, whether or not you
follow that recipe or have, or follow

the advice, completely different story.

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
but Yeah.

I think people don't know what
they want and your job as a

founder and a product person is
to iterate and try and experiment.

Hey, what about this?

What about that?

So, that fail fast kind of design
mentality is certainly something

that I've, taken on board.

And I mean, for mine, if I can learn
from somebody who's smarter than me

and learn a lesson the easy way, when
someone's like, Hey, Adam, don't do that.

Yep, gotcha Raph, next.

So yeah, excited for
that journey, for sure.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: Awesome.

Cool.

Anything else you want to tell me about
North Technology people or, the events?

Thank you so much for having me last week.

That was amazing.

I think I saw you also do like
an AI machine learning one.

So yeah.

Yeah.

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
Yeah man, so you know, recruitment

business, we make placements, that's
where we generate revenue, but since

we started the business, I've always,
believed in the term of kind of business

karma, you know, like if we're, you
know, So, creating this, this free

event community and resource for people
across Canada and North America, and

we're contributing to the ecosystem.

Good things come off the back of
that, and we have just met so many

fantastic people, clients, and
candidates alike through our events.

So, yeah, that's what we do.

But yeah, don't, don't want
to plug the business too much.

If you're hiring or you're looking for
work, always happy to have conversations

I think recruitment's probably I
don't want to call myself an expert

because I don't like to, so I just,
I know a lot about recruitment and,

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226:
I'll call you an expert.

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
okay,

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: you
don't want to say it, I'll say it.

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
yeah, you get called these types of

things that when people are like, oh, I'm
an entrepreneur, I'm like, I think you

get called that, you know, that's, it's
like a nickname, you know what I mean?

Like nobody's

like, oh yeah, I'm like Jimmy Jones.

It's like, does anybody call you that?

Or is that what you
want people to call you?

You get awarded a nickname, you
get awarded those types of titles.

So, Yeah, I think we do cool things
with our results speak for themselves and

yeah, happy to chat and help anybody who's
looking for work or struggling I know

it's pretty tough out there at the minute.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: Yeah.

Awesome.

Well, thank you so much.

We're going to wrap this up
with, the small tech question.

So I hear you've brought a, a small
tech product to, talk about something

that you use that has Meaningfully
affected your life in some way or

that you find neat or fun or yeah.

What you got for us?

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
Yeah, so there is this

app called , PDF Filler.

Now

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: PDF

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
Yeah, when we get CVs in from candidates,

they have all their details on there.

And there are some things
that we want to scrub off, i.

e.

Personal contact details when we
send them to the client, because we

don't want them to call the candidate
directly, and then we miss out on

that, and the conversations, and
the follow up, and blah, blah, blah.

So we say, hey, if you want to
talk to Jim or Jane or Raph, let

us know, and we'll coordinate that.

PDF filler has just been like super
useful, where you just upload any

document, specifically PDFs, which
you can't edit, And then I'll go

in and I'll draw a square and I'll
say, remove, and then I'll add logo.

It, I don't know how many users they
have, but it's just been, I mean, we,

we used it for the last four years
and it's just like a no brainer.

It's like, yep, cool.

We need this.

, so there's that, which I found
was, super handy and useful for us.

Also, if you're like, just an
average Joe or Jane, Carrot is a

mobile app that I also look and use.

I've used it to buy some things.

So basically it's like eBay, but
it's like hyper, super localized.

So the idea is that like, you're
selling stuff to your neighbors

and people in your community.

So yeah, it's free to use and download.

I've bought some random stuff off there.

So I would, yeah, totally plug them.

And, the last one I'd say is, uh, TinyURL.

It does what it says on the box.

They've been around for ages.

I did used to use another
one , URL shortener.

I think it was called Bitly.

But then they, monetized
it and blah, blah, blah.

And I'm like, ugh, I don't want
to pay to make my URL shortener.

So, TinyURL, shout out to you guys.

Thanks for keeping it free.

And, yeah, basically you just,
if you need to shorten a URL,

you just throw it in there.

TinyURL, bing, and it gives you a,
you know, HTTP, LARIBAR, 506letters.

com, and you just click, you can
send that link, and people click it,

and it takes them to the full URL.

So, uh, yeah, there's a few little
products that, hopefully worked

for me, and, and hopefully your
audience can find some value there.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: I love it.

I find it so awesome how there's like.

There's so much space for so many
different like little products

that serve a very specific purpose
for a very specific audience.

And you can just build

a nice solid business running these
small tech products, which is amazing.

So, yeah, thanks for sharing those.

I will definitely be checking
out Carrot, and the PDF filler

sounds pretty great too.

And TinyURL, I already knew.

They're pretty cool.

Thanks for sharing.

And thanks for coming on the podcast.

I appreciate it.

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
Very welcome, Raph.

Yeah, man.

It was good.

Good to catch up and chat.

And hopefully the audience is, uh,
you know, learn a thing or two about

recruitment in the market and what's
happening, but, uh, yeah, I think that

this, the market, the last thing I'll say
is that, that, honestly, tech , hasn't

had its best year in the last 12 to
18 months, but from what we're seeing.

So I predicted at the end of last year,
I said Q1 is going to be a kind of wait

and see month, if we got through the
end of the quarter and didn't see a

bunch of Canadian layoffs, I think Bell
and a couple of other large corporate

enterprises have decided to make some
layoffs, which is cool, but as long as

we're not seeing a bunch of startups VC
funded make I think Q2 is probably going

to be the unthawing and then hopefully
Q3, Q4, we're going to start to see

some good movement again in the market.

We're starting to see some clients
like pop up again and start to have

people get back in touch with us and
say, Hey, can you help over my goal?

Okay.

So it's starting to see things move.

Anybody who's out there struggling
to find work, just be patient , happy

to help you if you want to chat and
have conversations about that as well.

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: awesome.

That is very hopeful
sounding, and I love it.

So, great note to end it on.

Thanks for coming on, and
I'll talk to you soon.

adam-delgado--he-him-_1_03-26-2024_180225:
man, take care, all the

raph_1_03-26-2024_150226: Alright, see ya.

Raphaël Titsworth-Morin: Folks.

That was my interview with Adam
Delgato of north technology people.

I hope you enjoyed it.

I hope you've learned some
interesting stuff about recruitment.

And make sure to keep an eye out
for whatever Adam is brewing on the

side, this exciting new product.

So thanks again for listening, you can
go find Ephemere Creative at goec.io.

You can subscribe to the
podcast at smalltechpodcast.com.

Find us on YouTube on Spotify,
everywhere that fine podcasts are found.

You can subscribe to our newsletter
smalltechpodcast.com, which is

where we will be sending you all
kinds of neat tips and tricks

about building small tech products.

So that's it for this week's episode, we
all want to do some good in the world.

So go out there and build
something good folks.

I'll see you on the next one.

See.

Yeah.