Leigh: It's so much more efficient and
quicker if I don't pretend that I have all

the answers right away and just say, Hey,
you're smarter than me let me listen to

you in this realm and then go to somebody
else and say, Hey, you're smarter than

me or that other person in this realm.

First thing, avoid hardware
at all costs can't like that.

That is one of the lessons.

Raphaël: Aren't you also
working on another hardware

Leigh: yes, but and
maybe I'll explain that.

If you can't avoid building hardware,

Raphaël: Yeah,

Leigh: it actually proves that
your hardware is necessary.

Raphaël: yeah.

Leigh: Which is a good place
to be, because it takes so long

and every expense just builds up

changing one line of code,
you can run it right away.

Changing a sensor or a chip it's weeks
to get it manufactured and sent over, and

then that may not fix something, right?

And of course there's burn rate
for everything else going on

Thronmax MDrill One Pro & USB Video:
Hey folks.

And welcome to this latest
episode of the small tech podcast.

I am Raph the co-founder of EC, the
digital product studio, building

technology for a more sustainable future.

And today we have another awesome guest.

He is the founder and CEO of Preception.

He's also a friend of mine and someone
that I've known for almost a decade.

I think.

I always find it really fun to chat with
him about what he's doing about sport,

about the technology that he's building.

He's always such a positive.

Positive person who really makes
you just want to go out and build

something And feel good about what
you're creating about building a

startup about building a product.

He's also done a lot of really
neat stuff in his career.

And it's just really cool to, to dig
into that and learn more about his career

trajectory, his path as an entrepreneur.

How all of these things
sort of came together.

I really enjoyed this chat.

I love these conversations where I talk
to people that I already know quite well.

Because I get to learn all kinds of
things that I did not know about them.

When we're doing it in the context of
like an interview and chatting about.

Their journey.

Really hope you enjoy this
interview as much as I did.

This is my chat with Leigh Sembaluk.

,
Raphaël: Hey Leigh,

Leigh: Raph.

Raphaël: How's it going?

As if we weren't just
talking right before this.

Leigh: know, I know.

It's it's all for the show.

I'll do whatever's needed.

Raphaël: Yeah, I'm gonna dive right
into this and just kind of ask you,

uh, A, well, first off, what's, what
is Preception and what is Pro Instinct?

I

Leigh: Preception is the company
that I started and ProInstinct is the

first product is probably the best
way of just separating those two.

Preception, what we do is we train
and measure spatial awareness,

decision making, speed of thought
in athletes, starting with soccer.

I'll say football, because that's,
um And that's, you know, what

I usually say, um, first and

Raphaël: was very surprised to hear the S

Leigh: yeah, I know, I know, you know,
you got to cater to all audiences,

Raph, um, but yeah, basically it's based
off all the things that were deemed

like impossible to train and measure.

And I didn't like that as an answer.

And, you know, tech is
meant to solve problems.

So that's where we started, what we
do, and what we're capable of doing.

awesome

Raphaël: And Pro Instinct is within that.

It's a mobile app.

Leigh: Yeah.

So speaking about pivots, during COVID,
uh, hardware and access to teams was

a real problem for obvious reasons.

So, we decided, well, you know, since
teams aren't competing and athletes

aren't working with one another,
and I would argue spatial awareness

really went down during Covid because.

Everything was in front of a person on
a screen, walking down the street you

don't have to dodge anybody because they
moved to the other side of the street.

So we decided, well, if we go software
only and use a cell phone as stimulus and

as a training platform whats' possible And
that's where was born out of actually the

exact moment that I remember having that
was, driving down Denman street and I was

in the right lane of two lanes and there
was a woman just walking down the sidewalk

Raphaël: yeah,

Leigh: uh, goes to avoid somebody
in front to keep social distancing,

but just like walks onto the street

Raphaël: yeah,

Leigh: steps there and her purse
like hits my side view mirror.

But had no idea I was there
or moving and you know she's

fine, but it was just, it was that
moment of like, oh this And, uh,

I think that this person in front
of me is more important and don't

even look to see or hear a car or
anything out there, pay attention,

they're, you know, on the street and
jumping onto a street and a lane.

And it was just, it was one of those
moments where I was like, yeah, we,

we really need to start working on
increasing spatial awareness again.

And.

You know, it was a big moment
of like, I need to make this

change now and get better.

Raphaël: Yep.

Yeah.

Wild.

So actually with all of that why
did you start this company?

Who are you?

Where did you come from?

Just, just appeared out of nowhere
and just kind of like, all right,

I'm going to start this company.

Leigh: yeah.

And, and I'll say, I really didn't
want to start a tech company.

Like,

I, I didn't.

Um,

Raphaël: That's so funny to

Leigh: in many ways, I tried to do
everything possible to avoid it because

my background was as a footballer.

Like that's, that's what I've done since
I was four and then went to university

and I got a degree, but that was just
so that I could play football and,

and, signed pro after that in New York
and got injured and then coached full

time with Vancouver Whitecaps and SFU.

And my job was to make pro athletes happy
and on the field and you know like so

pretty much as far away from Tech as
possible where I'm just I'm a coach

working with athletes in a ball, and
yeah, there's tech involved, but what my

background is luckily for me I know enough
about tech because my dad was involved in

computers and my brother is a solutions
architect at IBM and stuff, so there's

like, I have some knowledge through family

Raphaël: You could throw some ideas around
and hope to get some half decent feedback.

Leigh: yeah.

And family can't ignore me when
I'm asking for good advice.

Right.

So, uh, it's, you know, it's,
it's built in from birth.

So, um, so luckily I had some advice and
just grew up around computers and stuff.

But why I started And the company and
got into tech was at one point I was

doing exit interviews with players
and just discussing like your spatial

awareness isn't where we need it to be.

Your decision making is a little
bit too slow and, you know, like

it, it's just the reality was
those things weren't good enough.

I mean, they were technically
good, good athletes, like is kind

of the, the best of the young
athletes that are available always,

Raphaël: Yeah.

Leigh: and.

And one of them said, well, what do I do?

And I gave them some, I'll say BS
answer to, uh, make it, you know,

make it correct for the podcast.

But the reality was like, you
just need to get better at it.

And the only real way is by.

Being in a good competitive environment
like ours, but they've been there for

a few years, haven't really added it.

And we're sending them back into
kind of like the, amateur environment

knowing that probably will get better.

So that bothered me because it's
like, I'm just giving answers

that I don't believe in, but I
can't say, sorry, you're screwed.

Like, I don't know.

,
So, my best friend is on his
way to being a neuroscientist.

So we had some conversations.

He, he put me in touches with, uh,
like some cognitive science professors

at SFU and we started discussions
and the consensus was it's a skill

Raphaël: Yeah.

Leigh: And I was like, great , I agree.

Right.

Because I've had it,
other people have had it.

Um, and that's what we, we look for.

Right.

And I said, well, can it be taught?

And he goes, well, in theory, yes.

And can it be measured?

Same thing, like in theory, yes.

And I'm like, but in reality, right.

Cause in theory we can visit
neighboring galaxies and things.

Right.

You know, right now, and the
answer was like, you know, I've

never seen a way of doing that.

So, I was kind of at this point of,
well, that's my job and what I want

to do and want to improve players.

But, the most important things to
me, to their success in my opinion.

We can't train.

We can't measure as coaches even the
discussion is like, Hey Raph, I think

this player's, uh, you know, spatial
awareness isn't where it needs to be.

You're like, Hey Leigh, I think it is.

And then we kind of just say, Okay.

like, you know, oh, I think
they make decisions too slow.

I don't, okay.

Like, you know, there's nothing
to go off of where, you know,

speed, strength, technical ability,
there's metrics for everything.

Raphaël: Yeah.

Leigh: So yeah, for me I thought, well,
okay, let's, let's start from zero.

Cause that's what it was.

So like developing methodology how would
we train this and came up with a way of

training it using existing hardware that
was okay and got us to a level of proving

things and launch that as a consulting
company and it failed because the hardware

sucked and wasn't made for purpose it
was too bright outside and sensors would

start triggering it's like okay this
doesn't work so for now, so you know one

of those moment where I either turn and
go back to being a coach just make peace

with it or build something for a purpose

Raphaël: yeah.

Leigh: What's possible if we actually
build something that can measure these

things that is made to work on field with
teams as they already train with like

all this and, and saw the possibilities
and that it went way beyond just football

and to other sports to potential like
policing and, and training that way

and military and it's like, well, that.

You know, there's a, there's a lot of
room for growth in all these things.

And the, and the outcomes were in terms
of performance, like mind blowingly good.

So that's when I decided to start a
company and I really wasn't excited about

it but I remember talking to somebody.

Uh, it was more of like a advisor, mentor,
it might've been at Launch Academy,

but, uh, they basically said, like,
when you have, like, every reason to not

do it, but you still can't let it go,

Raphaël: Yeah.

Leigh: like, that, that's a good place
to start from, because you kind of need

some of that as a founder of just,
like, it doesn't make sense, but I

just, I just Like solving this problem
is bigger than whatever problems in

front of me or reasons to turn back.

So,

Raphaël: Yep.

Leigh: that's my long winded story of

Raphaël: I love

Leigh: how I got to where I was.

Raphaël: Got dragged kicking and
screaming into the tech world and then

was kind of like, oh, I kind of have to.

Leigh: It was, it was equal
parts that and excitement of

like, okay I really want this

Raphaël: Yeah.

Leigh: And I know other
people do too, right?

And the main thing is like we
were constantly failing players

Raphaël: Yeah.

Leigh: them to have things
that they might even have it.

And we can't even, we can't even
identify it and agree up on it

Raphaël: Yeah.

Leigh: you know, like track and field,
you know, exactly how fast somebody

is, like it's, you know, it's easy.

So, yeah.

You know, that part excited me too.

And it was like, okay, we actually
can give players the opportunities

that they've earned and deserved.

And, you know, um allow us to see
what their potential really is

versus, you know, what just in our
minds we've made up about them.

And we also have biases.

We validate our own.

You know, first perspectives of players.

Raphaël: Yeah.

Leigh: So that was the other thing
first impressions are important

and if it's one that they're not
aware of, that sticks in our mind.

If it's one where they made
a great turn, it's like, wow.

They keep validating that and then neither
of them is necessarily based in fact.

So,

Raphaël: Yep.

Leigh: so that's, that's the stuff
has kept me going all these years.

Raphaël: Cool.

I, yeah, I love it.

I'm kind of curious with all of that,
and Preception as a company that builds

hardware and ProInstinct as a product
that is software I feel like I've heard

you get pretty enthusiastic about youth
sport and we did some work together

on some Pro Instinct stuff last year.

And I'm kind of curious how youth
specifically and encouraging youth

sport, fits into all of this.

Leigh: Yeah, so the hardware side is,
has uses for youth sport absolutely

and, and will tie in and, but it's
just because of price points and

everything is, is, a lot higher.

And, and we're also, um, you know,
the hardware is still in R&D, even

though we've made really good progress
and hit some milestones there.

But for your question for youth
sport, it was part of the reason why

ProInstinct came about, I'll say
just access to sport to training to to

basically start eliminating barriers.

Was the main reason.

Because nowadays almost
everyone has a cell phone.

Raphaël: Yeah.

Leigh: we've even made everything so
that the cell phone someone has can be.

Five, 10 years old and it still runs fine.

And apps can be super cheap
and just build, like we,

we have it where it's just.

And this is built into what clubs
or organizations already provide.

And even then, if it's too
expensive for certain ones, you

can give it as discounts or free.

Like, we, we really the whole
point is eliminating barriers.

And

Raphaël: I love it.

Leigh: we even did a partnership.

To do a bit of a launch with the North
American Indigenous Games that was

generously funded by Canadian Tire's
Jumpstart program, um, who I've been

extremely impressed with, and have a
lot of respect for the stuff they do.

And yeah, they were just a joy to
work with and we're looking at more.

With something like the North
American Indigenous Games.

It's athletes from literally
all areas of Canada.

Into the US as well where access
to training is sometimes hours away

for club teams for other things.

So that was part of the aim is just,
let's get, really good training, even

if someone's training on their own.

That's almost impossible to have
any sort of spatial awareness and

quick decision making on whether
space or opportunities are around us.

So it was a ways of taking things that
weren't even being trained at MLS

Academy and NCAA University levels
and saying, here, anyone, anyone can

have this for free or covered through
donations and foundations to any use club.

When it comes back to just everyone being
able to have the chance to start realizing

potential in the ways that they want to.

And if that's sport then
great, we're happy to be there.

Raphaël: Yeah.

Awesome.

Your journey little Leigh, what
would, uh, would Little Leigh have

benefited from, from this app?

I'm sure, of course, but, um, yeah,
do you want to talk a little bit

about your journey as a young athlete?

Leigh: so, absolutely I
would have benefited from it.

I also had, you know, maybe a built
in version of this that I don't

recommend, but I always was playing
about four or five years up, and

I mean, Raph, you know me, but I'm
like five foot seven on a good day.

Raphaël: Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Leigh: always playing against kids
that were like three, four years older.

I was playing in the men's league
in Saskatchewan when I was 15.

So like, I would just get kicked.

And by people that would be upset, there's
a little kid that's doing okay in a game.

And I had more of just, Everyone was
faster than me, everyone was stronger,

um, and I would just get fouled a lot,
so I had to constantly be looking around,

and if I was taking one too many touches,
I would know because I would feel it.

So, I'm not suggesting that's what
other people do but, um, yeah, the

amount of times that I had ice and
things after games was huge, but, you

know, the benefit was really When I
was and became, you know, a fully grown

adult, I now didn't have any of those
disadvantages, but had such good awareness

Raphaël: gonna say you don't
recommend it, but it doesn't hurt.

But it does hurt.

Leigh: it, it,

Raphaël: doesn't hurt.

Leigh: It's less painful
using an application.

We haven't built out the hardware
to just put in a slide tackle, when

you take too long to see something.

It's, it's a few, few generations down
the lawyers have some problems with it.

So, we'll see when it gets released,
but, um, you know, it's, it's been

pushed off a few times, despite my
best efforts at getting it through.

Raphaël: actually, I'm kind of curious,
because with your background, and I love

this about like talking to people who
didn't come from like tech, who came

from somewhere else, like Stepping into
tech world and like learning how product

development, but even actually, so for
you, you went from not tech to hardware,

which I feel like is a whole other like
can of worms and then into software,

which is also just very different.

Like what are some things
that you learned going through

all of these transitions?

cause I feel like it sounds
a bit like a lot of whiplash.

Leigh: Yeah.

First thing, avoid hardware at all costs.

can't like that.

That is one of the lessons.

Um,

Raphaël: Aren't you also
working on another hardware

Leigh: yes, but, so, and
maybe I'll explain that.

If you can't avoid building hardware,

Raphaël: Yeah,

Leigh: it actually proves that
your hardware is necessary.

Raphaël: yeah.

Leigh: is, which is a good place
to be, because it takes so long

and Every expense just builds up
because, you know, changing one line

of code, you can run it right away.

Changing a sensor or a chip or
something on a board, that's

Raphaël: You can't one click deploy

Leigh: Yeah, it's weeks to get it
manufactured and sent over, and then

that may not fix something, right?

And of course there's burn
rate for everything else going

on, even if that stops it.

And also hardware is often like, let's get
the hardware we think can get us the data

or do the thing that we think it can do
to get the insights we think we can get.

Like, you know, but the upfront
cost is just big for that, right?

So that's probably my first lesson I think
it's a really good barrier because if you

need it, then that also means any problem
you're solving also needs that hardware,

Raphaël: yeah,

Leigh: Whereas software, is way easier,
but it can also be replaced a lot easier

if someone else can come along and there's
not really patents and moats for software.

It's easier to get in, but also
easier for anyone else to get in.

There's probably two lessons that are
tied of me being non tech and getting in.

And one is, how genuinely helpful
the tech community has been.

I've noticed almost every founder I've
talked to has some bit of humility

because we've all failed in so many
different ways that it's like Hey,

if I can help, let me help or give
advice or connect you with somebody,

because it's the only real reason
that person's still around is because

they've had all this help along the way.

Um, and I've seen that not just in
Vancouver, but a lot of other places.

Raphaël: yeah,

Leigh: it's pretty easy which
ones aren't willing to help,

Raphaël: mm

Leigh: that's okay too, but it's
like, it's just, it's night and

day, and we don't need to be
friends with everybody either.

Raphaël: yeah, mm

Leigh: So that was probably the first
thing, and then the second thing

was I feel I have had an advantage
because I didn't come in thinking

I really knew how to do things.

Which, made it easier because I just
had to synthesize a bunch of really

good information and advice and
more say I'm not going to take this

because this doesn't apply to us.

Raphaël: Yeah.

Leigh: opposed to, I'll say often,
and I've seen this actually as

I've gone on further, there's
times where I just think I have

the right answer and the right way of
doing things and the first thing someone

has to do is convince me that my way
isn't the best way which takes time

and then introduce the new way of like,
that was probably the other really good

lesson is it's so much more efficient
and easy and quicker and takes less

time if I don't pretend that I have
all the answers right away and can

just say, Hey, you're smarter than me.

Let me listen to you in this realm
and then go to somebody else and

say, Hey, you're smarter than me
or that other person in this realm.

Raphaël: Yeah.

Leigh: And, and, uh, yeah, so,

Raphaël: Yeah.

It's awesome to have.

I, I feel like I appreciate that
so much, both about, like the, the

community that I was in, the startup
community that I was in before

in Halifax and here in Vancouver.

Like there's just so many people
who are willing to sort of share.

And if you're open to it, like
there's, yeah, there's so many

people who are willing to help.

And yeah, if you stay open
then it's just so much easier.

Yeah.

Leigh: also often smartest
people and the ones that know what

they're doing don't act like it.

So like, it's nice to not over
estimate or underestimate people.

It's just ask a question because
there's some brilliant people

that I was like, Oh, I, you know,
I've talked to you maybe once.

And they're a little bit shy or socially
awkward or whatever, but like the advice

and when they do decide to speak, it's
like, it's really worth listening to.

So I also like that, you know, say
sport gets a reputation for big,

strong, loud, fast, confidence
all this, and that's fine.

And that's generally what thrives,
where tech kind of, I'll say equalizes

a lot of that, uh, in my opinion, too.

So, so,

Raphaël: Yeah.

Leigh: knew where the key pieces
of advice were coming from.

And that might just be me.

Yeah, I've seen you around a
couple times, like, what do you do?

And, you know, so it's, yeah,
it's been awesome that way.

Raphaël: Are there any, like,
things that you think really helped

you coming from sport, coming
from being an athlete, to tech?

Like you run your team in a
particular way because you come

from sport or, I don't know, like,
anything like that that you think,

Leigh: I get out the tactics board and
draw the X's and circles and lines.

Raphaël: Yeah, little
whiteboard markers, and, yep.

Leigh: Maybe I'll start from
the coaching side first, because

I feel in many ways, coaching
is like the evolution into.

You know, dropping the ego because we're
a bit older and washed up, but still,

like, you know, it's kind of like, it's
not, it's not about us anymore, or I'll

say when coaching is done properly.

Raphaël: Yeah.

Leigh: so the, the big lesson I
learned there was I was the only

like heavily involved person that
couldn't actually play the game,

Raphaël: Okay.

Leigh: so it was all about making
sure everyone else involved

can thrive That's what it was.

So when it comes from me and tech
and also without me being a hardware

engineer or anything like this, right?

It was very much, my job is to
help somebody else be their best.

Right, so that, that was a really big
lesson for me, because there, you know,

everyone else that I work with, for
most of it is the one really doing the

hands on work, so that was probably
one of the biggest lessons, um, but

then from, from the player side I'll
go with two, and one is actually, it's

also aimed at a criticism of tech in
general, but as an athlete, it's really

clear of understanding like how much
energy we put into something and also

resting and taking care of ourselves.

And throughout a week, if it's like every
day we're training as hard as we can,

you just fail, because there's no energy
for a game, or when it matters, and such.

The one thing that I really have tried
to instill and understand is like,

running a company is one grueling season.

And

I see tech so often of just like push
through, grind, stay up late, do all this.

And I just see people burning out.

Where for me, it's more of there's
some days where I'm just on a

roll and have tons of energy.

You know?

I'll be doing work till eight,
nine at night, and that's fine.

And then there's other days that
I'll just come to like one or two

o'clock and look and see my schedule
and be like, I've got nothing else.

I've not been productive, like
stop, rest, call it a day,

Raphaël: Yeah.

Leigh: come back tomorrow actually
fresh, uh, instead of just I'll say,

falling flat and such for days to come.

I think that's one of the big lessons
is actually being able to check in

and be like, how am I doing today?

Like, what's my energy like?

As an example, if I am
coming to a podcast.

And, just like, oh,
it's just another grind.

Why even do it, right?

So, um, that's one of the lessons, and
then I think the other one is just,

as an athlete I think there's, with
team sports, I'll say there's a good

understanding of our role is to do
everything we can to compete and win.

Raphaël: Mm-Hmm.

Leigh: And, in a sport like
football, that doesn't always happen.

Raphaël: Yeah.

Leigh: sometimes it's just like,
yeah, this game, we weren't

gonna win, they were too good.

It's almost like a test of
just, how good am I right now?

And then try and be a little
bit better the next time.

You know, that it's just like, yeah,
there's so many different factors,

so many things that, that can change.

And like that willingness to
constantly just battle and then.

They're like, okay, I , did my best,

Raphaël: Yep.

Leigh: and we won, great,
celebrate, be happy.

We lost be pissed off and disappointed,
but I'll be back on the field

tomorrow and you know just continue.

So I think that's the other thing that is
like that, I'll say that resilience and

kind of just going with the punches and
having that Yeah , it's not a confidence.

It's just more of a, just a solidity
of just like, this is who I am.

This is what I do.

And, now that's as a tech and tech
founder, and we get beat up a lot

and we have a lot of losses and
wins, but that's just the way it is.

Raphaël: Just keep

going.

Cool.

Well, thank you so much,
Leigh this was really fun.

and I feel like I learned a lot, about
you, about the, the stuff that you do.

Um, and I'm curious if you have
a small tech product to plug,

since this is podcast after all.

Leigh: I know, and the, thing that
I'm going to plug in, and I mean,

it kind of ties in in multiple ways,
but first of all, I'm in football

withdrawal, um, sitting at the

Raphaël: Okay.

Leigh: all the time, so the, uh,
the small tech, thing I'm actually

going to plug is, a friend's.

This game that he made it was made by
Gabe Karkanis, who we actually both know,

but he developed a game called Pocket FC.

And

it's, uh, you know, it's a, it's a free
to play game that's either for mobile

or web, it's kind of like the best blend
of playing like fantasy football with

friends where you do drafts and compete
against each other and like, games are

matched up and a football manager game.

So you own a team and then matches are
just kind of set throughout the season so

they happen generally about twice a day.

Raphaël: Okay.

Leigh: it's, you actually get to
compete with friends in a league

and buy players and sell players
and set formations and do all that.

I mean this in the best of ways, like
it's, it's the crappy overhead view of

dots walking, going around the and just
watch like a quick three minute game,

um, which is, which is fun because it's
just, you get to see them play out what

you have and see the, the winner loss.

And but the reason it's actually made
my life better is because it's kind

of like it takes five or ten minutes a
day and you just sit down and be like,

how did my team do, set the formation,
and that can be it for the next game,

but it's turned into a way of, like,
having a nice little break that allows

you to, you know, You know, it can't
get lost into because there's nothing

to do after that five or 10 minutes.

And I just wait till, you know,
here it's 3am and 3pm are the games.

So I just wake up, see how
I did, set it at lunch.

Then that's, you know,
kind of all I need to do.

But it's like that way of injecting just
a little bit of joy and a bit of a break.

And also a way of I, my team's in the,
in the MLS league, and so is Gabe and a

few other people we know, so it's just
a way of, you know, You know, a little

bit of trash talking or actually being
like, yeah, you were good that day.

So anyway, it's just, you know, it's a,
it's a fun way to build that little bit

of, of connection and smiling and joy and
whatever it to, you know, into the day.

Some people meditate, some people do
go do all these other things for me.

That's just like a little way of.

Throwing that in.

So, yeah, PI wanna make sure I get
it proper I think it's pocketfc.com.

So,

Raphaël: Awesome.

Cool.

We'll link to it in the show notes as

well.

Leigh: and, and if you join the
MLS, I'm, uh, Montreal fc, and, and

currently in second, I think I'm
gonna lose the league this time.

But, uh,

Raphaël: Oh

no, who's winning?

Leigh: it's actually
Gabe's partner, Seattle.

Raphaël: I

think there might be some, that,
that sounds like collusion to me.

Someone's got access to the back end

Leigh: Yeah, yeah, I, I don't, I think
if that was the case, Gabe would be, Gabe

would be doing a little better, but, uh,
yeah, no, it's, yeah, it's just, it's a

lot of, it's a lot of fun, so, you know,

I think we might see you on
there soon, Raph, too, as

Raphaël: Yep.

Awesome.

Cool.

Well, thanks so much, Leigh.

Um,

Leigh: having me on, it's been fun.

Raphaël: yeah.

Alrighty.

Well, have a good, uh,
good rest of your day.

Leigh: Thanks, you too, Raph.

Raphaël: See ya.

Folks.

That was my chat, my
interview with Leigh Sembaluk.

Like I had so much fun.

I feel like I learned so many things
that I did not know about Leigh.

It was, yeah.

I just love it.

It's also just really neat to hear
about that career trajectory and

the things that you can sort of
move from one industry to another.

And how that sparks ideas
and learnings and yeah.

Going from pro soccer to coaching,
to hardware tech to software tech.

Super cool.

If you want to find out more about what
Leigh is building, you can head over to

proinstinctapp.com to check out the app.

If you want to get a sense about
preception as a company, you

can head over to preception.io.

Yeah check out the Pro Instinct app.

It's super cool.

And if you know some youth who are
part of a club that could use some

cool training technology, check it out.

It's awesome.

Also, if you enjoyed the podcast.

And you are not yet subscribed.

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[email protected].

And let us know if you
want to be our next guest.

We'd love to interview you.

If you're building some cool
tech and you're having a positive

impact in the world, we'd love
to have you on the podcast.

If you are building a
product, a digital product.

A tech platform, something along
those lines, we would also love to

collaborate with you or work with you.

If you need any help,
if you need any advice.

Just head over to go love to chat with you
and learn more about what you're building.

And maybe there's some
way for us to collaborate.

In the meantime, we all want to
do something good in the world.

So go out there and build something.

Good folks.

I will see you in the next one.

See ya.